Heeling

[hopenfox]

My Obedience Club is at long last at the point of changing from old military style, correction based trial training to motivational reward based training aimed at the average pet owner...(At last! :p )

So I've sort of taken it upon myself to make up a whole new class structure (since no-one else expressed interest) to put to the committee and instructors.

On average about 3% of our club's members ever end up trialling. (This percentage should improve with the new training method...currently the club churns out 'robot dogs' with 'robot handlers' who entirely retrain their dogs if they wanted to trial)

So my question is, how important is teaching the average pet owner to teach their dog to heel in the early classes?

In my opinion, owner's basically want their dogs to know how to;

#sit

#lie down (drop)

#stay

#wait

#come

#leave

and

#walk nicely on a lead

My club has 7 classes; Baby Puppies, Older Puppies, Beginner's, and Classes One, Two, Three and Four.

I thought, unless member's ask to be taught earlier, that I would introduce (trial type) heeling (e.g. happy, fun, focused heeling) at class three, with the knowledge that the average dog owners have learnt all they want by Class Two and depart, leaving the more dedicated trainers who may be interested in trialling.

Looking forward to reading your opinions!

[leopuppy04]

For the average pet owner? Not really.

For the trialler - imperative.... BUT you can do more damage than good in a class situation.

I'd keep a bit of heeling in there - our club basically just teaches the dog to 'come to heel'... like a return and then they build on that.

IMO - do you know what would be a really good proposal? Keep the dogs together say until level 1-2. Then have a stream for 'potential triallers' and another stream for 'pet dogs'.

That way the 'pet dog' group can learn more about 'manners' such as jumping up and 'staying' on a mat..... also some fun things like games, tricks etc.

The 'potential triallers' group would be aimed for more experienced handlers at working on their dogs precision as well as a bit og games, tricks and manners.... but it would always be a more precise (and always smaller quantity of people) class.

I like this idea and want to propose it to our club, as I feel that 'triallers' get bored when they put a new dog through the basics and 'pet owners' don't want to learn how to get their dog to heel, esp, if they think they'll never use it :p

[JulesP]

Oh Leopuppy please do. I was going to suggest it but don't think I am very popular at the moment (because I dropped out of trainers class). I tried to find a 'trialing' club but all the local ones are really focusing on pet stuff now. And it seems to be very much focused on people that have never owned dogs before.

Am about to have another fight about tricks! lol

[dogdude]

Hi Hopenfox

You have posed a tricky question.

#Walk on a loose lead & #leave, are the beneficial side effects of correct heeling. The same as taught for trialling. Trialling, is only showcasing it.

"Heel" is used as a tool while walking your dog when it is needed, so is very important.

The number one problem for the average dog club member has got nothing to do with not wanting to teach all the precision stuff (as often claimed by them), it is laziness.

I would say that nearly 80% of members at our club fall into this category. They do not want to put in the consistant work each night, so they end up lingering in the same class for years sometimes, until they eventually convince themselves that they have done something good for their dog and think near enough is good enough.

You will notice at your own club, that the ones that do go onto trial are the keen ones who do their homework every night until each exercise is learnt, even if they initially have no interest in trialling. A very low percentage of these types ever drop out and quit after the basics.

I am very frank in my class, and make it very obvious to everyone that they are only wasting their time by thinking that way, but some people just want the social part of the club which is fine by me, and I dont pick on them.

I have found, that by reminding the class of this regulary, that things are starting to change, and improvements are in the works. I always make a big deal when I can see weekly improvments in the dogs, to put pressure on the ones that dont do homework. More emphasis needs to be put on that area of training IMO.

[hopenfox]

leopuppy04 - That's a great idea, and something I and fellow triallers have always wanted in our club, however we just don't have enough instructors as it is, so would be unable to hold more classes than we do right now. Maybe once the new way of training comes in, people will discover how fun it is and want to go further...Maybe become instructors, and then we can add trialling based classes. But for now, I've just added the beginning of trial exercises in Class 3 and more advanced in Class 4.

Rather than using 'Heel' in the early classes I think I'll call it 'Close'...Just to help preserve the 'life' in the Heeling exercise for future triallers...

I'm very aware of the laziness of a lot of members...it's like talking to a brick wall sometimes...they're very frustrating! At least at the moment I'm instructing the Puppy classes. Very refreshing with almost 100% doing their homework and coming back each week full of enthusiasm!

Hopefully our new methods will encourage the same feeling in our other classes...

[Asalei]

Can you explain exactly what heeling is? I always thought it was to make the dog stay by your side whilst walking on a lead... is there something more to it?

We start our obedience next week and this is one thing I want to learn, as our puppies seem to go from side to side (this may be a beagle thing?) when walking and it's very hard to get them to stay by your side.

As you say, the things we really want to learn are:

#sit

#lie down (drop)

#stay

#wait

#come

#leave

and

#walk nicely on a lead

Or girls know very well how to sit, drop, roll.. but not stay. Is heeling not something you learn in general obedience class? This is something that was probably on the top of our list to learn.

Unless #walk nicely on a lead has the basics of heeling and this helps them with keeping by your side whilst walking?

I guess we kinda have it harder than teaching one dog, as we have two and we are finding it increasingly hard to walk them as they always want to be beside each other and when one goes in front, the other cracks an absolute narna behind and whinges, cries and carry's on.

I'm not sure whether my input was what you wanted, as most of the responses seem to be from professionals but, I think I'd give you some feedback being a new obedience mummy next week.

Edited April 18, 2007 by ~Erin~

[ness]

Interesting hopenfox my word for heel is close . I never used "formal' heelwork outside the trial ring. If I want Ness in close because of lots of people walking past I just either reduce the amount of lead she has and then require a loose lead or I just call her name and have her watch me - which could be a watch verbal command as attention in the ring you ideally want as a default behaviour together with heeling rather than one that is verbally commanded.

My thoughts are that LLW should basically just be a default behaviour and no cue required other than the leash. You can still teach the dogs to look at the handler when they say the dogs name as an attention getter or a verbal watch command but quite simply the expectation is the leash is on the dog must walk nicely.

Edited April 18, 2007 by ness

[leopuppy04]

Erin - heeling is like a dance more than anything else :-).

It is a lot more complicated than we give it credit. We expect a dog to maintain position and focus the WHOLE time they are in heel... position being their shoulder in line with your left leg. No matter where you turn, if you stop, or how your pace changes, the dog must maintain this position.... all without you uttering another word .

As you can see it is quite complex and one that we constantly need to be training even if your dog is good at it. As many have said - no pet owner wants their dog to do this... mainly they want nice LLW - which like Ness said IMO shouldn't have a cue.... and perhaps a 'close' or 'with me' which calls the dog into the vacininty of your left side... not as free as a LLW - ie: if you need your dog to be close coz you are walking through crowds.

Make more sense?

[ness]

Yep actually "with me" is probably the best to use as it is not suitable to be used as a trialling word and leaves room open for people to later use either heel or close for heelwork. Its also tends to sound less command like and therefore friendler. Its hard to say with me in an aggressive tone where as you should see the tone of voice people can use to say heel or even close.

[dogdude]

Sorry guys, but I cant agree with you at all.

I get the impression that you think that proper heel should be only used in a trial?

It was never invented with that in mind. Like most other exercises, they originally had a practical purpose, and heeling still does!

I'm not a fan of having multiple commands that mean "similar" things other than "lets go" and 'here" for off lead walking. IMO the dog can learn to get sloppy in the command you "really want".

[JulesP]

Yeah I tend to just use 'heel' if that is what I am after. If I am just going for a walk I don't use any command (about from stop pulling). If I am walking through a crowd then I ask for 'heel'.

I didn't like the loose lead walking stuff we did at club as I felt it was confusing to then teach heeling after letting the dogs wander around. We were doing heeling patterns but on a loose lead btw, not just strolling along. So I did heeling from the beginning.

[ness]

I do it that way because I don't want her proper heel command becoming sloppy over time. Hell if we walk through a crowd as long as she is paying attention to me and close in I don't honestly care if she is slightly ahead, slightly behind, a bit wider, if her head isn't glued to my leg at all costs. Sure I want her paying attention yes but for that her head doesn't need to be located right next or touching my leg or even held as I would like it for trialling.

ETA. The only confusion between LLW and teaching heeling depends on how you wish to teach it. If you have spent ages working on reinforcing coming to heel and setting up and working 1 step at a time there is really no need for the confusion. None the least bit if you have the dogs at a stage where you can have them off-lead when you commence heelwork training. Failing that you can start them off on-lead in big circles (but of course don't expect more than a couple of paces before rewarding for a number of times)

Edited April 18, 2007 by ness

[Keshwar]

Sorry guys, but I cant agree with you at all.

I get the impression that you think that proper heel should be only used in a trial?

It was never invented with that in mind. Like most other exercises, they originally had a practical purpose, and heeling still does!

I'm not a fan of having multiple commands that mean "similar" things other than "lets go" and 'here" for off lead walking. IMO the dog can learn to get sloppy in the command you "really want".

I agree and disagree Dogdude.

I have two commands that I use regularly when walking Faxon. I use "walk" to mean walk with me and to the end of the lead without pulling. I use "heel" when I want him. in the heel position. I use this on a walk when I see people or other dogs approaching and want greater control than I have when we are simply "walking". So I don't use heel as simply a trialling command but I do have two commands for similar things.

I do have an issue with people using heel when they don't actually want their dog in the heel position - ie glued to left leg. I believe this leads to a sloppy heeling and the dog not understanding what heel is.

Having said all that I get the feeling that most "pet" owners don't understand what heeling is or really need to know. Most simply want a dog that walks nicely on a lead and doesn't yank their arm out. The problem in the Obedience club situation is that most people don't know if they want to go on to trialling or not until they get to the more experienced classes. I'm not sure how to solve this conflict.

Bear.

[dogdude]

I think alot of this discussion will depend on what the dog has been taught from the beggining, like, am I taking the dog for a walk as opposed to the dog coming for a walk with me. This applys on and off lead.

With my first dog, I done lots of work on that, but I have been rather lazy with Oscar, and I am paying the price.

With my first dog, I would run and hide etc when he was off lead and not paying attention to me and things like that to enforce sticking closely by me while out.

I started doing this with Oscar in Melbourne, and within 10 minutes I was being questioned by police because I was hiding in the bushes , so I gave up on that idea!

[Kavik]

I use heeling at times other than obedience training. I use it on walks when we pass other people and dogs - not everyone enjoys a nearly 30 kg dog saying hi! But certainly the precision you need for competition is not what your average pet owner is even interested in achieving. I'm not sure whether using the heel command occasionally on walks erodes his performance - he knows the difference in location etc as to what exactly he has to do - and I would rather be able to use it as a practical thing as well.

[JulesP]

at Dogdude hiding in bushes!

[Shazbot]

at Dogdude hiding in bushes!

This made me giggle aswell.