Kaeleigh's Tumour

[kamuzz]

aggh Pix sorry to hear there is more bad news for poor Kaeleigh. :hugs:

[Cordelia]

Hi there,

was it a fine needle aspirate or a proper biopsy?

It was a fine needle aspirate.

your description on x-ray of the lump as well as its location makes me wonder if it couldn't be an osteosarcoma (bone tumor) they are difficult to diagnosis even on biopsy and they can look like a soft tissue sarcoma on histopath.

Osteosarcoma is usually coupled with pain (and is usually on the bone). Kaeleigh is not in any pain whatsoever, even on deep palpation she is not at all bothered by the growth.... and it isn't actually attached to any bone.

i wouldn't suggest waiting for the lump to get bigger before doing anything surgically - soft tissue sarcomas can change their grade and become more aggressive even when left alone.

Unfortunately, the other side of that coin is that an attempt at surgical removal of a spindle cell sarcoma and not getting all surrounding tissue (impossible in this case) is more likely to result in the tumour returning very aggressively and in further locations. If left alone, yes, it 'may' become aggressive.... or it may not. Due to the location of the tumour, the impossibility of removing it all safely AND the fact that Kaelieigh is showing absolutely no signs of discomfort or illness at this point... alternatives are being looked into to halt growth or shrink the tumour without surgical intervention.

[aniangel]

thanks for the info - i wouldn't solely trust a fine needle sample, especially with a result of spindle cell - its way too generic - and could still go either way (mind you this is without seeing the cyto report), and even if it doesnt appear to be from the bone on xray, it still certainly could be, the description on here just made me a little suspicious. pain associated with osteosarcoma is most pronounced with appendicular (or legs) but i have seen scapular, spinal, sacral and rib osteos that dogs have barely blinked at when they are palpated, mainly because they are not in a weight bearing area. a CT would certainly be able to establish the tumor's site and extensiveness. and even a blood test could give you an indication if it was an osteo (not 100% tho), they are commonly associated with an elevated AlkPhos level.

of course, not seeing the FNA i certainly can't say for sure, but you can still look into pre surgical radiation (this type is available in sydney) or chemo to try and shrink the tumor to make the surgical removal easier if it is a soft tissue sarcoma. no matter what type of soft tissue sarcoma they are, ie spindle cell, they all act the same way and are treated the same, with the only differentiating factor being the grade - and the chances of a soft tissue sarcoma becoming a higher grade is a likelihood more than a 'may' unfortunately.

sorry to get technical.....i love my job and the science of it all, plus nursing veterinary onco patients is something i have found a calling in! enough from me and my ramblings! no matter what the decision is regarding treatment it is obvious she is loved and cared for and in great hands, i just get frustrated with a lot of the 'old school' veterinary assumptions and spiels that are given to the public and just hope i can provide some more specific info when needed!

[sidoney]

I just saw this thread. Can't offer anything other than support. Kaeleigh has certainly had a rough trot in her life so far. Hope things look up for you.

[Guest Piximatosis]

Thanks for that Cordy. You make more sense than I do

Aniangel - thank you.

My Vet is not keen to start cutting into the tumour as it is her belief and experience that when you start chopping these things up too much, they tend to become more aggressive. After discussion we decided that even if the diagnosis was inaccurate and it was a different kind of cancer, our treatment decisions would be pretty similar.

If it is a very aggressive cancer, then we would make her as comfortable as possible for as long as possible, then let her go. I wrote a big long paragraph explaining why I would choose this as opposed to subjecting her to various treatments until she was so sick she just couldn't go on, but in the end people will either understand or they won't... Kaeleigh has so many problems already, how much is one dog supposed to deal with?

If it IS what we think it is, our current plan of action would still stand. Whilever it is not growing or causing pain or discomfort, we will hope and pray and do what we can to keep it that way. It's a bit like being stuck between a rock and a hard place... if we leave it, it could grow faster and become more aggressive and spread... if we cut it out, it will probably grow back, grow faster and spread... I guess if the damned thing is going to spread, it's going to spread.

Her lump is being closely monitored by myself, a number of experienced friends and the Vet... if it keeps growing (which I have a horrible feeling it is) then we will try to cut it out and hope the surgery is successful. When it's cut out completely, I'll have it sent off to be properly biopsied etc. Even if we could shrink the tumour pre-surgery it wouldn't make a huge difference as unless we actually cut its size down by over a third, to remove proper margins a very similar amount of damage will be done...

At the moment, if I can avoid putting her through drastic surgery then I will. She is a complete lunatic and trying to keep her still and quiet while she heals will distress her greatly (and I won't enjoy it much either I can tell you!!). A couple of the other treatments we discussed would make her sick themselves... when they have such a slim chance of being successful, I just can't do that to this dog. Either of my other two dogs would cope quite well and I would probably give it a shot with them... but Kaeleigh would be exceedingly distressed. I can't really put that into words any better than that... anyone who has met her will know what I mean!

I hope this is coming across with the right "tone" aniangel, I do genuinely appreciate your thoughts, advice, anything. I'm just trying to find a balance between being overly emotional, practical and in the end doing what is best for HER and not just for me.

Thanks everyone for the kind words too... and Sidoney thank you... support is highly undervalued

[Staffyluv]

Hi Pix,

Have you had a chance to talk to the ladies at All Natural Vet Care yet?

I can tell you that if it were not for them, Ollie would not have the quality of life he has.

They might be able to do the same for Kaeleigh if and when she needs it.

Good luck with it all

Jodie

[Guest Piximatosis]

I haven't yet, but I will.

[Freckles]

A couple of the other treatments we discussed would make her sick themselves... when they have such a slim chance of being successful, I just can't do that to this dog. Either of my other two dogs would cope quite well and I would probably give it a shot with them... but Kaeleigh would be exceedingly distressed. I can't really put that into words any better than that... anyone who has met her will know what I mean!

I think Pix the best way to make others understand what you mean there is, the other treatment would make her sick and with Kaeleighs mentality she may as well be dead. With a low success rate of recovery it would be kinder to give her a quick peaceful out than make her suffer for you to have a few more months or even weeks with her suffering.

Ultimately Pix it is up to you and you WILL know what is the best thing to do for her, and there are many shoulders around you to help you get through that choice what ever it may be.

The most important thing at the moment is to just enjoy the beautiful *special* girl she is now and worry about the other stuff if or when you need to.

Love both you and as always more virtual hugs on the way

[aniangel]

its obvious that you are the person that knows her best and what the best way to go is - you love her! that totally shines thru

i hope i didn't offend, it wasn't my intention, just wanted you to have information to help you make the best choice for her...i'll be thinking of both of you and keeping fingers crossed - if i can be of any help, just let me know