Weavers

[leopuppy04]

Just kidding!

I just think the posts are relevant to anyone wanting to teach weaving. Plus I am having weaving trouble at the moment.

What is the best way to teach an independent weave aside from Channel weaves. I want Leo to be able to surge ahead with weaving, but don't know how to teach this.

He is also very inconsistent.

So I am armed with new weaving poles and ready for some ideas

[ness]

Hm Ness has/had lovely independant weavers - taught using Susan Garretts 2x2. I got slack and now she needs a second weaving command otherwise she stops. I use to just be able to say Go Weave and she would complete them regardless of what I was doing.

Leo can already weave can't he. I retaught Ness using the 2x2 method - to fix entries and help with just using a signal command. We initially did weave-o-matic type (stuck in the ground weavers bent over and gradually made straight) when she was first learning.

ETA where did you get your weaving poles from and what did you make them out of

Edited April 12, 2007 by ness

[leopuppy04]

Elaborate on the 2x2 method please!

Yes he can weave, but since he is not super dooper fast, we waste a LOT of time there ... and he is inconsistent.... weave Leo.... no not today

I got mine from bunnings. They are plastic garden stakes with a metal reinforcement in them - normal height of weavers..... cost is around $5 for a bundle of 6

[ness]

Might have to look for those - we have bought some PVC but still have to make the nails for them to go into.

There is a fantastic article in Clean run on how to teach it but basically you start out with 2 poles and send the dog through. Then gradually add 2 poles at a time till you get to 12. You can also introduce angled approaches from 2 poles but I prefer waiting till I have 4 poles. You do those as you would do angled fronts (around the clock locations). Probably didn't explain it very well.

I am pretty sure its in her book shaping success as well .

Edited April 12, 2007 by ness

[laffi]

Sorry

Are your weavers attached together or just stuck in the ground?

Thank you!

Elaborate on the 2x2 method please!

Yes he can weave, but since he is not super dooper fast, we waste a LOT of time there ... and he is inconsistent.... weave Leo.... no not today

I got mine from bunnings. They are plastic garden stakes with a metal reinforcement in them - normal height of weavers..... cost is around $5 for a bundle of 6

[leopuppy04]

There was one in the Agility book that I got recently - one of the 'LAD'/ Kay Laurence ones.

I think it is the same method - you start with 2 poles about 3ft distance and another 2 poles. you get the dog to weave, pull them back through the gap and ask for 'weave' again..... gradually you fade out the 2nd weave and then you bring the poles together and the dog should automatically do all 4.... then you add 2 more.... etc,etc.... does that sound the same?

I started with this and like it, but curious about other methods.

How about getting the dog to enter from various angles/ other obstacles - that is our next hurdle....

Laffi - I just use a hammer to get them in the ground.... rather than measure the distance eact time I got some string - tied it to the first and last pole (taught) then I got some coloured duck tape and stuck 'flags' on the string where every pole was. that way, when I set up I put the 1st and last pole in and then all the others go where the flags are

Edited April 12, 2007 by leopuppy04

[t(AD)pole]

Clean Run Feb 2007 issue! Buy it.

[ness]

Leopuppy that is what I used 2x2 to teach. Angled entries . Starting with only 4-6 poles.

[leopuppy04]

cool - that was my plan.... well that and to get you out of my thread

[ness]

[Tassie]

I actually taught my girl with V-weaves, but I have played with the 2x2 with the boy - but not consistently enough.

Once they have the idea of weaving, I like to use click for a complete correct set. I'll also use a target - good if you've got a friend to help with that. With a friend, you can also use a tug-toy or ball thrown at the end of a completed correct set to help build drive.

A good tip I got from someone in Queensland, was - not to be in too much of a hurry to close up the v - and when you do, straighten poles gradually from the far end at first, so the dog is driving through and then encounters the straightened poles - chances are they will have their rhythm going by then, and will keep driving - rewards as above.

If I'm just working on entries, I use 4 straight poles (thanks, Deb Kelly), and work up and back with me staying on the one side, and working round the clock each end. I use the clicker to mark correct performance there too.

Oh, and be careful what you wish for - I've created a weave monster, so weavers are added to the list of high-risk-for-off-course obstacles.

[superminty]

Just curious, why not channel weaves? While I still have some proofing to go re: entries, I found that as long as I worked on getting up to full speed at each step before tightening the channel, I got speed and accuracy.

I also don't like to use a V - seemed to create more confusion than it was worth, my dog really struggled with getting them from a V to straight but had no problems with having them upright from the start and just bringing them in closer.

To proof entries I use three poles and offset the first one when starting difficult entries.

[leopuppy04]

I don't mind channel weaves but I can't set it up at home - and no matter what I try he won't do it at home.... also he always jumps over the barrier - to many things to get him to do first before actually weaving...... I find the other way (push and pull) was a lot faster but I can't get distance or the drive ahead of me..... I dunno....

Were u entered on Sunday Superminty??? How did you go??

Edited April 12, 2007 by leopuppy04

[superminty]

I don't mind channel weaves but I can't set it up at home - and no matter what I try he won't do it at home.... also he always jumps over the barrier - to many things to get him to do first before actually weaving...... I find the other way (push and pull) was a lot faster but I can't get distance or the drive ahead of me..... I dunno....

Were u entered on Sunday Superminty??? How did you go??

lol!

Minty had an attack of the sillies, first run I walked out half way through, judge had to point out that he had actually set a course as we just made up our own Next few runs were better but still no pass, did some nice work in agility though so was very happy and had heaps of fun entertaining the crowd Ah well, donation to the club. Plus I won a wine hamper in the raffle, yahoo

Back to the topic - I have stick in the ground poles that I just cart with me everywhere. Taught it originally in the park. No barriers. Or do you just mean barriers in the way your yard is set up? I confused I've never practiced weaving at home, always in a park somewhere.

[leopuppy04]

at club - to teach channel weavers - they would put barriers through the weavers and I can't be stuffed organising all of that AND Leo tends to jump over the barrier . If I don't have the barriers he won't do the weaves. He seems to get the 2x2 method though

bad luck on sunday - I only ended up with the 1 pass

Didnt you get a few passes on Sat?

[smisch]

I did the channel weaving, (thats what they use at our club) but another way that I was taught to do to get the dog to be more independant was to throw the reward on the ground so the dogs would have their head down and urge on rather than look at you waiting for the instruction.

I hope I explained that alright Vickie may care to elaborate as she taught me the method and it's really useful!

[helen]

at club - to teach channel weavers - they would put barriers through the weavers and I can't be stuffed organising all of that AND Leo tends to jump over the barrier . If I don't have the barriers he won't do the weaves. He seems to get the 2x2 method though

bad luck on sunday - I only ended up with the 1 pass

Didnt you get a few passes on Sat?

I tried teaching Bella with barriers, seems to me she was learning to follow the barriers and had absolutely no idea when they were removed.

This is however, working very well with Tilly. We started properly 2 days ago LOL - she has a few weeks to learn them before Geelong and her first agility trial LOL. I entered her in novice agility as a warm up for the big event - novice strategic pairs, her partner is going to be the weaver in that one.

I think Chazer is definately benefiting from watching Tilly. He sort of wondered his way along until he saw tilly bouncing through and then he copied.

[Kavik]

I am doing channel weaves. I am not using guides, just the channel, one less thing to wean them off later! I used the guides with Zoe for a while, and had trouble weaning them off, so decided not to use them at all, just widen the channel if there are problems. Seems to be working well with Kaos, though we are only going through a wide channel at the moment, working on entries and consistency.

If you are clever enough you could probably teach channel weaves with stick in the ground poles.

[Vickie]

What is the best way to teach an independent weave aside from Channel weaves. I want Leo to be able to surge ahead with weaving, but don't know how to teach this. He is also very inconsistent.

I would take him back to 3 poles until you are getting the drive/motivation/distance/accuracy/independence you want you want & then move to 5. I did most of my initial weave training on 3, then moved to 5 when I was happy & then straight to 12. Every now & then if I am finetuning something now I will slightly offset just to help out.

There are lots of different methods that people swear by...I guess it is about picking one & doing the hard yards (not really...2-3 times a day for a week should make a dramatic improvement) to follow it through.

BTW. I think you are really mean to throw us out of the other thread I think I was finally getting Ness to stop making excuses & just do it. Now I'll have to start all over again

Edited April 12, 2007 by Vickie

[superminty]

I am doing channel weaves. I am not using guides, just the channel, one less thing to wean them off later! I used the guides with Zoe for a while, and had trouble weaning them off, so decided not to use them at all, just widen the channel if there are problems.

Yup, for independant weaves, no guides (barriers) so the dog really has to work out what is required, no crutches! IMO, same goes for angling - just something else to wean off. Start with four poles - far apart, getting dog to run through at top speed. Then just bring 'em in gradually, an inch at a time. Obviously it gets harder as you get them closer together and you may need a couple of sessions for the dog to work out what they need to do (ie. weave). But before you progress to the next level, make sure the dog is doing them flat out at that level.

If Leo won't do the weaves without the barriers, get rid of the barriers asap! Go back to poles way apart. Really, it doesn't take that long, 5 mins here and there. The "aha" moment will come. It never hurts to take a step back, even if it is a big one.

As for driving through, get the accuracy, then chuck a toy out in front (or whatever is his motivator) and build the drive (don't stress about missing a few), than only reward for both accuracy and drive. Remember your rules of shaping!

Gosh, I do ramble a bit! Sorry.