Food Possessive Golden Pup

[laffi]

Laffi, our 12 week old golden, spent a week with two other dogs that were very possessive of their food and toys. Today at the puppy school the teacher came over to teach us how to take food (pig ear) from her and Laffi actually bit her. I was almost in tears. She is such a great pup. I wanted to do hospital therapy with her, that's why I got a golden. And now I have a dog that actually bit someone

I know this was probably discussed many times, but for some reason my search option on the forum does not work (doesn't find anything). So if you could give me some advice, send old links and maybe cheer me up I would really appreciate it.

Edited April 20, 2007 by laffi

[Kavik]

What did the instructor at the puppy school do to take the pig's ear from your pup?

I would teach your pup to give you things on command - you can swap for something really yummy. If you show them a treat they will often drop what they have for the treat, you can add a command to this. I would start with something of low value and you have something much better, then progress to higher value items.

[blacklabrador]

I won't tolerate that rubbish from a puppy. Food is power in the dog world. If you allow that kind of behaviour to continue you will have a huge problem on your hands once your dog gets big.

My current pup was about the same age when he growled at me because I walked too close to him when he was eating a bone. He only did it once and I haven't had a problem with him since. A few extremely stern words and a smack on the nose before I walked off with his bone. I gave it back a few minutes later. None of this "adding food" bullshit. He's a pup and there's no question about who is boss. I refuse to be intimidated by a puppy. Solve the problems the first time they happen.

Please don't think you won't have problems because you have a goldie. Like labs, they are dogs too. They are capable of biting and some have aggression issues. You have to establish yourself as a leader worthy of respect.

[Miranda]

I'm afraid that I have no tolerance for this sort of behaviour. Any puppy that growls or, heaven forbid, bites when I want to take food or a toy from it gets growled at severely and also receives a good scruffing. I make absolutely certain that the pup knows that growling and/or biting is totally unacceptable and that repeating the behaviour isn't advisable. I have never had to do this twice.

Really any aggressive behaviour in a very young puppy needs to be nipped in the bud immediately, I know that some dog trainers may not agree with my method (and I am not a dog trainer), but it works for me.

[Goodwill]

When our goldie "Will" was about 16 weeks we had a similar incident at puppy school where he stole another puppy's bone (each pup was given a bone at the end of the lesson) and then growled aggressively when the other pup and the puppy school teacher tried to take it away from him. He eventually let me remove it. It really upset me, however, I spent the next few weeks deliberately removing his food bowl or bone before he finished and then returning it a short time later ... the same with favourite toys. He learn't very quickly and we haven't had a problem since. We also reinforced leadership stuff, you know making sure you are first through the door and that he is fed after the human family has eaten etc Will was desexed at 6mths, he is 9mths now and gorgeous.

[laffi]

Thank you so much. We are definitely going to work on it.

During the lesson I realised she was growling when I had my hand near her when she was eating pig's ear. I was quite surprised because I haven't seen her doing anything like this before. But then I got her to give it to me a few times with "give" command. Then the instructor came and tried the same and Laffi just bit her. It seems that she can give it to me and my husband but she wouldn't give it to anyone else

She started doing this because I was fostering two dogs who were like that. They are my friend's dogs. Does it mean she shouldn't play with them again because they are so possessive and she is learning from them?

[Dogsfevr]

When you house sit /foster what ever you need to ensure the routine stays the same.It sounds like something happened to your pup to create an issue that most likely nobody noticed,i wont say there learning from them but did they steal ;affis food,toys,treats,was Laffi made to feel threatened when eating by them?? but the issue now is the dog has done something.

I will say though the trainer didnt handle the situation well at all,good trainers dont get bitten they now better & read body laguage & the signs to adjust a method to ensure the outcome is a positive one.When the trainer approached what did they do,what command did they give & what was the reward treat or did she just come up & grab expecting all to be hunky dory??

What actual signs did the dog show before bitting???

You do have a serious issue & one that most certainly can be dealt with if done correctly.Be patient but do the work but above all dont make a big deal over the food removing it needs to be done calmly,correctly so the pup understands it isnt in control & that taking food away isnt the end of the world

Yep start with low value & work up but be consistant ,any food given needs to be done for a job for which you are in control

[Staff'n'Toller]

I have PM'd you laffi.

[B-Q]

with a couple of our pups, the first day we had them. their first feed, we always make sure to heandle their food on occasion when their eating. sophie has never had a problem with us taking her food.

mac snapped a bit when we first fed her and went to touch her food to check reaction. she was just this tiny little puppy so a sharp"NO" and continueing to take the food stopped her, she hasn't done it since.

harry snapped a bit the first time as well. but the same method stopped him.

buster is very food possessive with the other dogs. none of them can come near his food or he snaps at them. but if a person walks up to him he drops whatever he has and just stands back. he's a lot better now but he used to be that you couldn't even look at him or stabd near him with his food or he wouldn't be able to eat. all in all. stopping that behaviour quickly is the key.

your pup doesn't know its doing anything wrong, if those other 2 dogs could get away with it its okay right? you just gotta show your pup quickly and kindly that NO thats not it. if you wanna take its food thats fine, your going to give it back.

[laffi]

I have seen the other two dogs growling and biting Laffi when she was too close and they had bones. :rolleyes:

The teacher was near the puppy. She was saying "give", Laffi was growling. Then the teacher reached for the pig's ear, Laffi growled really loud and basically attacked her. Just like the other dogs did with Laffi. Looked very aggressive. :rolleyes:

When you house sit /foster what ever you need to ensure the routine stays the same.It sounds like something happened to your pup to create an issue that most likely nobody noticed,i wont say there learning from them but did they steal ;affis food,toys,treats,was Laffi made to feel threatened when eating by them?? but the issue now is the dog has done something.

I will say though the trainer didnt handle the situation well at all,good trainers dont get bitten they now better & read body laguage & the signs to adjust a method to ensure the outcome is a positive one.When the trainer approached what did they do,what command did they give & what was the reward treat or did she just come up & grab expecting all to be hunky dory??

What actual signs did the dog show before bitting???

You do have a serious issue & one that most certainly can be dealt with if done correctly.Be patient but do the work but above all dont make a big deal over the food removing it needs to be done calmly,correctly so the pup understands it isnt in control & that taking food away isnt the end of the world

Yep start with low value & work up but be consistant ,any food given needs to be done for a job for which you are in control

Edited April 11, 2007 by laffi

[centitout]

I won't tolerate that rubbish from a puppy. Food is power in the dog world. If you allow that kind of behaviour to continue you will have a huge problem on your hands once your dog gets big.

My current pup was about the same age when he growled at me because I walked too close to him when he was eating a bone. He only did it once and I haven't had a problem with him since. A few extremely stern words and a smack on the nose before I walked off with his bone. I gave it back a few minutes later. None of this "adding food" bullshit. He's a pup and there's no question about who is boss. I refuse to be intimidated by a puppy. Solve the problems the first time they happen.

Please don't think you won't have problems because you have a goldie. Like labs, they are dogs too. They are capable of biting and some have aggression issues. You have to establish yourself as a leader worthy of respect.

i totally agree,i took in an 8 yr bloodhound bitch-they didnt tell me until later that they had to feed her off the end of a broomhandle! she attacked my husband when he fed her because he was too slow to move away and then she had a very serious go at me when i decided to start making her sit etc before i would allow to eat-she was euthanised the same day.

[laffi]

The vet suggested that we leave Laffi in the clinic tomorrow for a day. She will be sitting there, given bones and treats and people will be passing by and taking stuff from her. It's meant to teach her to give her food to anyone. Do you think it's good training or will she just get upset for being teased all day long?

[Flaves]

Um, NO!

I would NOT give that power to anyone. Not my vet for sure.

There is actually no way in hell i would let my vet do that. i personally think it may casue more issues.

Do it yourself. Ultimately you would like your dog to accept that anyone can remove food however YOU should be the one to teach Laffi that NOT a stranger.

JMO.

[laffi]

Just to rectify, it would be the nurses that teach at the puppy school that would be taking care of her.

Um, NO!

I would NOT give that power to anyone. Not my vet for sure.

There is actually no way in hell i would let my vet do that. i personally think it may casue more issues.

Do it yourself. Ultimately you would like your dog to accept that anyone can remove food however YOU should be the one to teach Laffi that NOT a stranger.

JMO.

[Miranda]

Slightly off topic, but I wouldn't attend a puppy school where the instructors are vet nurses. Vet nurses aren't dog trainers and the majority of vet nurses I have come across have only a basic understanding of dog behaviour. A good puppy school will hire the services of a qualified dog trainer or behaviourist, not leave it up to the nurses.

The sort of training young puppies receive is very important, incorrect or ineffective training techniques applied to a baby can affect the puppy for life. As your puppy has what I would class as quite a serious problem I would definitely NOT be leaving this dog in the hands of a couple of vet nurses. If I were you I would enlist the help of a qualified dog trainer/behaviourist such as K9 Force or Erny, both of whom can be contacted via this forum.

BTW I am not criticising vet nurses, there are some excellent vet nurses around, but they are not qualified dog trainers and IMO leaving a young puppy with a biting problem in a busy surgery for a day could be an accident waiting to happen. I certainly wouldn't do it.

ETA that I've just noticed that you're in Queensland, if you contact Erny or K9 Force I'm sure they'll be able to recommend someone in Brisbane.

Edited April 12, 2007 by Miranda

[Flaves]

Just to rectify, it would be the nurses that teach at the puppy school that would be taking care of her.

Um, NO!

I would NOT give that power to anyone. Not my vet for sure.

There is actually no way in hell i would let my vet do that. i personally think it may casue more issues.

Do it yourself. Ultimately you would like your dog to accept that anyone can remove food however YOU should be the one to teach Laffi that NOT a stranger.

JMO.

Still NO. !!!!!

Go to a specific trainer eg ADT are great.

[Nevafollo]

first thing you learn when you go to dog training!!!

Instrutors are there to instruct you in the best way to teach your puppy!!!

IMO you need to work though this with your puppy rather than letting someone else deal with it!!! i personally think letting someone else do this may harm your puppy more than help it!!!

[laffi]

The two "bad influence" dogs are gone and I have been working on Laffi for a couple of days. Since the first day of training I don't even get a growl from her. When she has food (bone, pig's ears) and I come she either simply stops eating and drops it (and I can pick it up) or she stills chews on it but I can take it from her. When I approach her she doesn't even try to run away anymore (to hide her possessions like she and the other dogs used to). So that's definitely an improvement.

The only thing I worry about it that the fact that she is so obedient to me doesn't mean she would we like this with everybody. That's probably the only reason why I would even consider about leaving her there.

[Dogsfevr]

The trainer should have done it different when it was growling but no doubt it was a class,rush ,rush & push it the wrong way.

Growling dogs shouldnt win but it needs to be addressed differently & to still get attacked really does show they arent that good.As said a good trainer doesnt get bitten so easily.

As i pm i wouldnt do any of what is recommended ,you say you are getting results at home now why ruin it in one day,i would be seeking the help of a professional trainer who will educate you on how to handle & train a dog that has showen an issue.

You are very lucky it has happened early you have some many avenues to rectify the issue but you must seek the help of the right people with the right knowledge.

I agree with Miranda i now a vet that had a 16 yr old do puppy preschool classes & had never owned a dog.many use vet nurses & im sorry to say any form of dog traing should be done with someone experienced.it is just like school & teachers

[Faolmor]

You have to realise, too, that every time you take food away from your puppy, you're teaching her not to trust that the meal GIVEN to her is safe to be eaten in peace.

I understand that you want to feel safe around your dog, and want your dog to see you as leader, but would you like it if you went to a restaurant and whenever you tried to eat, the waiter kept taking your plate away?

I really understand your reasons why, but to me, this sort of training method just borders on cruelty. People that punish their dogs for reacting to have food removed from them (IMO) don't understand their dogs very well at all. If you never trusted that the food you were given was going to stay in front of you, you'd get upset pretty quickly about people approaching you when you were eating.

Don't forget that your dog has NO concept of that fact that you will feed it again. Ever. As far as your dog knows, the meal you've give in it its last meal on earth. Of course it is going to want to protect that food.

What you have to teach your dog is NOT that the food can be taken away, but that the dog can feel safe if approached by you (or anyone else) while it is eating. Why do you want to take the dog's food away anyway? To give it back, once you've proven that you're the boss? What does that teach the dog? Nothing.

Try ADDING food to your dog's bowl while it is eating. For example, give it half its usual meal. Then, while it is eating, approach and pour the other half into its bowl. It will quickly learn to associate your approaching its bowl with something pleasurable, rather than needing to go on the defensive.

If you're worried that you won't be able to take something dangerous off your dog that it might pick up to eat, such as a plastic bag etc, then teach your dog the "give" command. This can be done away from the dinner bowl, where the dog feels safe and happy. But you can still use food as a reward for acceptable behaviour. If your dog knows this command, it should obey if it picks up something you don't want it to eat. Remember, the dog will always ask itself, "what's in it for me?" If all it sees is you coming to take away a good feed, well would you be happy about it? Of course not! Always have something to offer the dog that is better than what it has. That way, the dog learns to see you as a positive presence, not someone it needs to fear.