Barking Mad...

[~Anne~]

Ralph is a rescue that was re-homed by me approximately 6 months ago. I had posted here once before about his issues with barking and although I had not stopped the behaviour completely I was able to control it a fair bit by using a water spray.

Ralphy has a hearing loss and this interferes with his training and he had very little vision when he first came into rescue but he was medicated for this and his sight has now improved. I never had issues with his restlessness as he was contained at night in a puppy pen.

This is an email received from his new owners;

................. We are having a few problems with Ralph and I was

hoping you might have some helpful advice. As you know, he settled

in really well and we didn't start to have problems with him until he

had been with us for about a month and at first we wrote it off as

"settling in" and probably a lack of training at his former home, so

we spent more time working with him. The main problem is that he

barks incessantly and for no apparent reason - it makes no difference

whether we are in the room with him, or if he's outside, on his own,

with our other dog, just been fed etc. and by incessant I mean it's

pretty much non-stop all day and well into the evening. One

afternoon he barked for 2.5 hours without a break, for no reason that

we could fathom. We have had several complaints from the neighbours

and despite a course with Bark Busters and consultation with our vet

and an animal behaviourist, we have not been able to modify this

behaviour at all. The only time he is quiet is when he is sleeping.

He also does not settle down inside the house at all, day or night.

If we put him in his basket, he immediately gets out and wanders

around the room barking; he keeps this up for hours. If we confine

him to his basket, he just barks and barks and barks and eventually

finds a way to climb or push his way out. At first we thought he

might be confused by the lights at night, so we tried darkening his

corner, but to no avail. Then we tried putting him in a darkened

room on his own, with his basket, but that only worked for a couple

of nights and then he was back to his old habits. If we use a water

spray he will stop barking immediately, but starts again within 1-2

minutes. Our vet is of the opinion that Ralphy has a very short

memory and therefore cannot remember the "cause and effect" of his

barking. We have tried rewarding him when he does the right thing,

but again, he doesn't seem to correlate the reward with the action

just performed. He is certainly not deaf and his eyesight has

improved tremendously on the ointment, so he can now see us quite

well, so he is not anywhere near as handicapped as when we first got

him. The vet can find nothing else wrong with him in a physical

sense, but finds him very hard to handle in the surgery. On the up

side, Ralphy has gained an enormous amount of confidence since he

arrived, but on the down side that confidence seems to have spilled

over into some rather aggravating behaviour.

We are at our wit's end - we love him dearly and want the best for

him, but he is causing so much disruption to the household (and the

neighbourhood) that he is becoming impossible to live with. Can you

suggest anything that might help?

His owners sound desperate. I have briefly suggest containing him at night as I did and perhaps trying a citronella collar. I have also suggested that worse case scenario would be to surgically de-bark him. His barking I believe is in-grained. He came to me after spending almost all of his life living outside as an only dog and I believe he has become desperately bored and lonely, particularly more so as his sight dissappeared and his hearing began to fade. He does hear loud noises well.

Can anyone offer advice?

[~Anne~]

I just received this in response to my reply about the citronella collar.... they really are great people and I would love to be able to help them.

thanks Anne, we really appreciate any assistance you can offer. We have tried a citronella collar, which didn't work and our vet eventually proscribed another anti-bark collar, which delivers a small electric shock. We didn't much like the idea of this, but out

of desperation did try it (although we tried it on ourselves first.

It was unpleasant but not actually painful, about equivalent to sticking your tongue on a 9 volt battery). That didn't work either -

in fact Ralph seemed to like it, so we eventually stopped using it.

We haven't tried the pheremone collar, but I have to admit that I'm not hopeful as the other collars didn't work. The basic problem with these is that Ralph doesn't seem to equate his barking with the effect of the collar. We do actually confine him most of the time when he's in the house by penning him in to one corner with his basket. About 25% of the time he will actually settle down for about an hour and have a snooze. Otherwise he spends all his time barking and trying to get out, usually with some success as he is quite strong and pretty much just bulldozes his way through and knocks the gate over.

I can understand, after you email, why this might have developed as a habit born of boredom and also probably an attention seeking behaviour. What I don't understand is why he is continuing with it in a very different environment. He gets plenty of attention and is almost always with someone. On the few occasion when we are all out at once, he is home with Max. He gets plenty of cuddles, is fed at the same time every day, has things to chew on and play with and the routine is pretty much the same every day. We try to give both our dogs a good life, and Max is perfectly behaved, so Ralph's behaviour stands out all the more. We hadn't considered de-barking but will give it some thought but it does seem pretty drastic.

We haven't given up yet and don't intend to - after all we agreed to give Ralph a home, warts and all. But we would like a little peace and quiet both for our family and the neighbours.

Many thanks for responding so quickly.

[Kirty]

Gosh that does sound bad. Could he be hearing something, perhaps like a ringing in his ears, that is causing him to bark? Perhaps something else is going on. I rescued an old Heeler bitch once who barked non-stop for the first 24hrs I had her. I put her in the bath the next day and found she was wall-to-wall covered in fleas. It was disgusting but her thick fur had made them invisible before. Once the fleas were gone, she was fine. Not saying he has fleas, but perhaps something is frustrating him (maybe something uncomfortable internally or in his ears) to make him bark.

I would perhaps recommend visiting a canine hearing specialist (if something like that exists!) just in case it is something physically wrong with him. If that doesn't help, debarking does sound like the only option. ;)

[PAX]

I would try putting him in a crate every time he starts barking and cover the crate with a blanket.

If they are bad barkers have the crate next to you so the second (hopefully) he stops barking,even if it's for a few seconds lift the blanket off the crat . I would be vey matter of fact about it, and don't talk to or comfort the dog. Hopefully he will make the 'cause and effect' connection quickly. If he seems to 'get it' you could let him out, but if he barks, back in the covered crate.

As it seems you have tried most things and I remember your posts about this noisy fellow, you might not have any other choice than debarking.

He is lucky boy to have find such nice owners that are really trying.

[~Anne~]

Thanks Pax and Kirty.

The idea that he may have something setting him off like ringing in his ears had never occurred to me but it certainly sounds plausible.

I will relay all info back to them. Thanks again.

[Arya]

Okay, as a trainer isn't this the most frustrating problem to deal with? It can be a nightmare! My thoughts - sounds like you've tried a lot and that the new owners have been motivated to really work hard to find a solution. Without seeing the behaviour for myself and being able to rule out categorically things like accidentally rewarding him with attention when he barks (even a telling-off is attention to some dogs, remember), you mention that he has a hearing loss and sight probs. As he's a rescue dog, do you know any of his history? The reason I'm asking is like Kirty, I'm wondering if there's a physiological problem behind his barking - some small bit of brain damage? The reason this thought struck me is some years ago I knew someone who had a problem barker who was also a little odd in other ways due to the fact he'd had a mild case of distemper, of all things, as a pup. The dog had minor brain damage. The owner was a vet and knew the dog's history well. I am just wondering if this could be a possibility and if in this case (and I hate to recommend them and rarely suggest it) perhaps some behaviour modifying drugs might help. It might be worth a trip to the vet to discuss this possibility. If all else fails, think of the possibility of a neurological problem is what I'm saying I guess. Like I said - can't see the dog but it's just another idea to throw into the melting pot. Good luck!

[Juene]

Hi,

I am no professional but have you heard of Jan Fennel The Dog Listener? I know she has a few great books out and these are available from most good bookstores or even the Library.

From what I have read of Jan Fennels and what I am reading here it would seem the dog is stressed and this could be as a result of it not being to sure about it's alpha roll.

Jan often suggests:

Simply ignoring the dog ... Do they command it to be quiet when it barks, yell at it to be quiet, walk around irritated etc? The dog looks at this as a sign that you are responding to it's barking and so the cycle continues, by ignoring the dog you do not promote it's barking, ignoring means not looking, not speaking, not acknowledging the dog in any way BUT as soon as it calms down reward the dog with a treat and heaps of praise.

Show the dog that you are the APLHA in the house, this can be achieved by turning without saying a word and not looking at the dog when it begs for attention, you decide when the dog gets attention, by allowing the dog to decide this it assumes the alpha roll. When feeding the dog let the dog see you eat from the same bowl before he gets fed (place a few human treats so that it looks like you are taking it from the bowl and let the dog see you do this) This shows the dog again that you are the alpha dog and that you eat first.

From what Jan suggests dogs will distress quickly once they realise they are not the alpha dog.

I wont make promises but I know from my own experience with my dog that these techniques do work. Jan also has DVD's and a Half hour show on ABC on a Saturday night (I think it is off air at the present time)

Good luck

Cheers ;)

PS: Here's her online site: http://www.janfennellthedoglistener.com/index.htm

[chrisk]

Hi, this is my first post and I am no expert at dog behavioural problems ..... another couple of sugestions is one of those puppy toys with the heart beat in it to help comfort the dog, have music on around the home (preferably soft music, but you never the dog might be a real rocker ..... also try finding someone who does herbal medicines to help calm the dog down.

I have a very hyper active shepherd pup and I add drops to her water to help calm her down.

Hope this may help

cheers

[~Anne~]

Hi Arya, thanks for your post.

Ralph was purchased as an 8 week old pup from a registered breeder. From all accounts it appears the 'breeder' was more of a byb and was breeding all manner of dogs. She is no longer registered.

For the first few years he was well cared for and was a house dog although he started losing his sight at a very early age and was apparently diagnosed incorectly by a Vet who said nothing could be done for his sight. Consequently he was almost totally blind by 3 years of age.

I am of the understanding he suffered no serious health issues apart from his sight and the loss of hearing was never investigated as it came on slowly.

After his first few years the owner married and moved into a new home and Ralph became an outside dog. By all accounts he was cared for when it came to his basic needs and he was vaccinated roughly every 12 months but this was about it.

He was surrendered with the reaosn that his owner was returning to work after ebing on maternity leave and she was worried about Ralph being 'lonely'. I never accepted this as a legitimate excuse at the time and I beleive now that it was partly his barking that was behind his surrender.

At the time if surrender he had lived outside on his own for over 4 years. He was almost totally blind and losing his hearing. I seriously believe he has developed the barking issue because of loneliness and boredom during those years.

Thanks again everyone for your posts!

[~Anne~]

Juene - Thanks for the link!!!!

[Arya]

Hi Arya, thanks for your post.

Ralph was purchased as an 8 week old pup from a registered breeder. From all accounts it appears the 'breeder' was more of a byb and was breeding all manner of dogs. She is no longer registered.

For the first few years he was well cared for and was a house dog although he started losing his sight at a very early age and was apparently diagnosed incorectly by a Vet who said nothing could be done for his sight. Consequently he was almost totally blind by 3 years of age.

I am of the understanding he suffered no serious health issues apart from his sight and the loss of hearing was never investigated as it came on slowly.

After his first few years the owner married and moved into a new home and Ralph became an outside dog. By all accounts he was cared for when it came to his basic needs and he was vaccinated roughly every 12 months but this was about it.

He was surrendered with the reaosn that his owner was returning to work after ebing on maternity leave and she was worried about Ralph being 'lonely'. I never accepted this as a legitimate excuse at the time and I beleive now that it was partly his barking that was behind his surrender.

At the time if surrender he had lived outside on his own for over 4 years. He was almost totally blind and losing his hearing. I seriously believe he has developed the barking issue because of loneliness and boredom during those years.

Thanks again everyone for your posts!

It's great that at least you have a full history for the dog, Puggles. You could indeed be right about the boredom tho if nothing is working and there's no change to his habits and his new owners are doing things right, this is strange. The hearing thing, the eyesight thing... there still could be a physical cause behind his behaviour. If you are in Sydney or Melbourne, do you think the owners would consider seeing a behaviourist like Dr Robert Holmes? It might cost a bit but it could well be worth it. Good luck - keep letting us know how things go.

[Erny]

This does sound a complicated issue - one difficult to determine cause. Assuming the new owners' timing of reward for not barking has been appropriate and assuming the dog perceives them as leaders (ie is not barking by way of 'demand'), the physiological cause previously suggested (ie ringing in ears) may be something worth investigating - particularly considering prior problematic history.

One other thought - It seems that a good part of Ralph's early life was spent in darkness (ie blind) and deafness(?). I wonder if his improved sight is resulting in (a) shadows/spots still remaining in his vision and/or (b) he is responding to sights, movement AND sounds that perhaps he has been unused to seeing and hearing?

ETA: Does Ralph continue his barking antics when he is out on walks etc.?

Edited April 10, 2007 by Erny

[~Anne~]

ETA: Does Ralph continue his barking antics when he is out on walks etc.?

I'm really not sure. Erny, would it be rude of me to ask you if I could put you in direct email contact with Ralph's owners? I value your advice and the situation really is vexing and troublesome.

I would need to check with the owners too of course.

His suffers from pigmentary keratitis caused by dry eye. This has been alleviated and a percentage of his sight has been restored using any eye cream called Optimune. He suffers from extremely poor night vision.

His hearing, although it was investigated, was only checked out by my Vets before he was adopted and apart from checking the internal parts of the ear with a camera no hearing tests were done. There was no damage or problems seen under camera. He appears to hear certain pitches very well but had some difficulty picking direction. His new owner reports that she says his hearing is better then we at first believed.

[Kirty]

I agree that it could also be visual stimulus that is setting off his barking. He might be seeing shadows and be afraid or confused. To me (and I am no expert) this does not sound like a behavioural issue. "Naughty" dogs generally don't bark when the owner is standing right next to them, etc. I hope you can find a solution for the poor guy though. :rolleyes:

[Erny]

I'm really not sure. Erny, would it be rude of me to ask you if I could put you in direct email contact with Ralph's owners? I value your advice and the situation really is vexing and troublesome.

You can, Puggles. I'm not sure what more I can add though - especially as it's exploratory information and questioning via the internet. These people interstate (ie not in Melbourne)?. In addition, if it is possible that it is medically based, I think someone like Robert Holmes (he's in Melbourne also) would be the guy to consult with. He at least has the Veterinary/medical credentials AS WELL as behaviourist qualifications and experience.

But I am happy enough for Ralph's owners to email me ..... provided they understand the above. :rolleyes:

ETA: Something I can think of that the owners can at least try (by way of experimentation towards determining cause). Have Ralph with them in a COMPLETELY DARKENED room. Whilst dogs have a superior night vision to ours, I am informed that there are times where their night vision is insufficient to see. And that is when there is complete darkness. I can only assume (I have no veterinary credentials) that if spots/shadows in front of Ralph's eyes are the cause of the barking behaviour, these should not affect him when in complete darkness. This would require more than just pulling blinds shut. It would require blackout curtaining, without outdoor street lights and/or moonlight etc. etc. being able to penetrate. Just a guess ..... but maybe worth a try. No harm done, in any case. :rolleyes:

Edited April 11, 2007 by Erny

[~Anne~]

Thanks Erny. I have had a few more email discussions with Ralph's owners and they have decided to take him back to the vet and so I haven't passed on your details yet but may in the future. In short this is part of what they have said;

Thank you so much for all these suggestions. Whilst we have tried alot of these behavioural type suggestions already, the general discussion has allowed us to take a step back and have another look at the situation.

Two people have suggested a possible organic cause to the problem (e.g. brain damage or senility) and this really makes sense to us. Looking at his behaviour, it seems fairly clear to us that there is something fundamentally wrong in a physical sense, as Ralph does not respond like a "normal" dog to the usual training techniques................. So we will take him back to the vet and ask him to look for a possible organic cause or disorder.

In the interim, under the vet's instruction, we are trialing him with valerian, a herbal sedative, that doesn't put him to sleep, but helps to relax him. so far this is helping a bit, but it is early days yet and there are still other options to be explored. I think we would consider debarking only as an absolute last resort, as it would only solve part of the problem and obviously wouldn't change his behaviour at all.

We feel that the discussion with your colleagues has helped us tremendously and we are redoubling our efforts to find a solution.

On the rare occasion when Ralphy settles down, he is a lovely dog and delightful to have around - we would like to bring that dog to the fore if at all possible.

I will keep you posted on developments.

Many thanks again and please pass our thanks on to everyone who has helped so far.

[Arya]

Good luck to them Puggles and good on them and you for being so persistent in trying to get to the bottom of the poor dog's problems. Do come back on and let us know how things work out, or how things are going. Hope he settles down.

[Erny]

Thanks Erny. I have had a few more email discussions with Ralph's owners and they have decided to take him back to the vet and so I haven't passed on your details yet but may in the future.

No worries Puggles. Congratulations on the owners for their continued efforts and sensible approaches to this situation. Ralph is indeed a lucky dog to find a home with people who care enough to dedicate the time, effort and unfortunately money towards finding help for him.

Am interested in knowing the outcome of their persuit to this end, so would you mind up-dating this thread with instalments regarding progress, as and when you know it?

To Ralph's owners I wish them good luck in their endeavours.

[~Anne~]

Good luck to them Puggles and good on them and you for being so persistent in trying to get to the bottom of the poor dog's problems. Do come back on and let us know how things work out, or how things are going. Hope he settles down.

I hope he settles too. I never give up on my rescues.

No worries Puggles. Congratulations on the owners for their continued efforts and sensible approaches to this situation. Ralph is indeed a lucky dog to find a home with people who care enough to dedicate the time, effort and unfortunately money towards finding help for him.

Am interested in knowing the outcome of their persuit to this end, so would you mind up-dating this thread with instalments regarding progress, as and when you know it?

To Ralph's owners I wish them good luck in their endeavours.

Ralph is lucky to have been adopted by them and I consider myself blessed that I found them (or them, me).

Here is a pic of Ralph when he came into my rescue (not a great one sorry)