Do You Have To Train At A Club

[Tunsafun Boxers]

Hi guys

Just wondering if you consider it a necessity to be a member of, and train at an obedience club in order to be successful with trialing?

Also, do you have to complete your obedience titles with your dog before you can compete in agility?

Sorry guys, weird questions i know.

I trialled many years ago but was a member of an obedience club and the instructor was a friend so we used to train daily together anyway. Not that it helped us a great deal due to the temperament and disposition of my dog :D

'Can it be done without attending a club weekly', i guess is my question.......... i want to start formal training but will have to do so at home and at the local oval until i can afford the membership fee for Berwick Obed Club. im up on the basics but will definitely need help polishing off before trialing.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

Jenna

edited cos of my spelling stuff-ups

Edited April 4, 2007 by Tunsafun Boxers

[Kavik]

You don't have to have obedience titiles to compete in agility - while some people do both, a lot of people do agility and not obedience. While I am doing obedience with Diesel with a view to trial, I am planning on trialling Kaos in agility but not obedience. What you need for agility is some obedience such as a good recall, and sit or drop and stay.

Clubs and private instruction are certainly useful for the polish and for showing you what you can improve (unless you video you can't see yourself and what you do :D ).

[Tunsafun Boxers]

Im really not sure which dog to trial to be honest.

Charlie is very laid back and really quiet obedient. i dont think she'd move from a stay because it would be hard work to do that lol but is very happy to please me.

Poppy is still nervy but full of energy. and at this stage is doing well on recalls. have been working on that (not for obedience) but because the little bugger keeps escaping and i have to call her back lol

Sarge is out cos he's not great around other dogs, and Cooper, well he's only 3 months old so no idea with him yet lol

Im going to work with them over the next few weeks, whether i trial one or all, they all need some more work so i'll see how we go.

thanks for the info though!

[ness]

Nope you don't have to as long as you have access to the right connections :D . I got my girl to a CDX trialling standard without attending a club (although I did for the last 4 months before entering a trial because I finally found somewhere to train).

We have been training UD since begining of November and we only just started going back out to the club at the begining of March.

I guess it depends if you have trained a dog to the standard you want before and if you have a wonderful support network of people to turn to if you get stuck or want a second set of eyes. If that is the case then nope you don't really need to train at a club.

[Sayreovi]

Not for obedience, but it is nice to ask someone to watch to pick up on the finer bits you cant yourself. Ohh and if you get stuck on something there is certainly someone who was stuck on the same thing and can help you out.

[FHRP]

As already said it's not necessary to train at a club to trial, however training group stays can be hard if training alone or with just one other person.

Edited April 4, 2007 by FHR

[Tunsafun Boxers]

I think i'd better start saving my pennies so i can join the club and train them there. i can still work on them at home, but maybe it'd be better if i went to a club so i dont end up having to undo something i've stuffed up eh?

As for agility, thats something i doubt i'll attempt with charlie. if it means she has to break out of a slow jog it just isn't going to happen lmao

Edited April 4, 2007 by Tunsafun Boxers

[Rom]

If I was starting over with my current dog.....I'm not sure that I'd begin her training at a club. Later on I'd attend the club for ring run out practise etc. For her there was just too much distraction. I'd probably take her along as a pup for socialisation in the early days, but not actually train her there until later.

[leopuppy04]

It isn't necessary to train at a club but IMO, it helps proof against distractions, not to mention helping in things such as group says .

Don't need to title in obed before doing agiliyt

[ness]

I will also add this to my comment earlier - I wouldn't be training a dog at "most" clubs but rather would train the dog up myself and then use the club when I wanted distractions. That would depend very much on the club and how the classes are run but all the clubs here force huge amounts of heelwork on dogs from the very begining and long boring heel patterns starting from the age of 4-5 months and I don't think that is very conducive to producing a top or even an average scoring obedience dog.

Not saying all clubs train this way just the ones I have observed.

[leopuppy04]

I will also add this to my comment earlier - I wouldn't be training a dog at "most" clubs but rather would train the dog up myself and then use the club when I wanted distractions. That would depend very much on the club and how the classes are run but all the clubs here force huge amounts of heelwork on dogs from the very begining and long boring heel patterns starting from the age of 4-5 months and I don't think that is very conducive to producing a top or even an average scoring obedience dog.

Not saying all clubs train this way just the ones I have observed.

oooh yeah - definately - lucky for me I can come and go in class as I please and no one questions the way I train Kinta - which is specifically for trialling - later she will go into trialling class which is 1:1 instruction for around 15mins ....

whatcha saying Ness... that my poor Leo is only mediocre

[bloss344]

That would depend very much on the club and how the classes are run but all the clubs here force huge amounts of heelwork on dogs from the very begining and long boring heel patterns starting from the age of 4-5 months and I don't think that is very conducive to producing a top or even an average scoring obedience dog.

Not saying all clubs train this way just the ones I have observed.

We are fortunate at Croydon in that they now don't begin moving heeling until Basic 2. Dog's are usually around 9 months or older at that stage. They do static heel position earlier though.

[ness]

LOL leopuppy - nope what I am saying is that I learnt my lesson with the Ness monster - I think we have undone it all now but its only taken 5 years or so. I would never train heelwork that way again.

Great to hear that Croydon don't introduce heelwork till they are 9 months. I would be interested to here how they teach it once they introduce it and good to know they teach the static heel position earlier. I am not adverse to teaching it earlier just that I would want to build it up in smaller steps then going into a class and expecting the dog to "heel" around in a circle for ages and ages. Lot of fun and games.

Edited April 5, 2007 by ness

[leopuppy04]

LOL leopuppy - nope what I am saying is that I learnt my lesson with the Ness monster - I think we have undone it all now but its only taken 5 years or so. I would never train heelwork that way again.

LOL - yeah I know - just teasing you . We did heeling the same way and I had so many things I needed to work through with Leo first

Great to hear that Croydon don't introduce heelwork till they are 9 months. I would be interested to here how they teach it once they introduce it and good to know they teach the static heel position earlier. I am not adverse to teaching it earlier just that I would want to build it up in smaller steps then going into a class and expecting the dog to "heel" around in a circle for ages and ages. Lot of fun and games.

Basically you teach the dog the 'teardrop heel first. Say 'heel' to get them into that position. Then you would start with taking one step forward and getting the dog to 'heel'. Continue to one step back, one step right and eventually one step to the left. This is their way of getting the dog to 'really' understand 'heel'...... I haven't done this yet with Kinta, but we are slowly doing it.

they introduce right and right about turns on LLW.

Static heel is taught pretty much with your correct footwork and the dog maintaining 'heel' I believe....

Then u gradually increase the steps etc. I think the dogs understand heel a lot better from this.

As I said - I haven't done it yet, but will let you know

[ness]

You know I never did post how I would go about teaching heel. I would avoid putting a command on it at all. Yep all future heelwork would be done UD style from the very begining. In the absence of anything else the dog is to stay in position. Lots of doodling heelwork with no commands. Easier then having to fade commands later.

I'd use exactly what I do now with Ness it would be a do you want to do something, are you ready. Hop in. (which would probably be "close" with a new puppy). Then no command for actually taking off at heel. The movement forward is enough of a command.

Edited April 5, 2007 by ness

[Cosmolo]

Ness- how would the dog know when you are heeling and when you are loose lead walking? Or do you not want that distinction and want the dog to always be in heel?

[ness]

Well there is a cue its just not a cue all the time. I said in my post I would have a do you want to do something type command followed by a hop in (close) type command to get her set up. Its no different to what I do now. When I want her to heel I get her tell her are you ready, place my foot slightly out tell her to get in and she sets up - after which time I expect her to heel until I release her.

Nope my dog isn't expected to heel all the time - far from it. The only time we do heelwork is when we are training or in the ring. Can't help the fact she tries it on occasionally during a walk in the hope of getting rewarded. Also I forgot to say all my heelwork would also be trained offlead (which is another reason I wouldn't train at a club) so no confusion with LLW since there is no lead .

ETA. I'll see if I can get the set up bit videoed although you can probably see it from the videos I have up on youtube.

Edited April 5, 2007 by ness

[wheres my rock]

i only use a club for distraction and access to equipment im one of those horrible members that doesnt instruct or help out just shows up does what needs to be done and leaves of gas bags with friends.

we dont start teaching heel till pupies are a bit older are co ordinated and finished growing we teach attention backend awareness on and off switch etc but no heeling i dont use a cue word for eeling as my dogs already know attention and are always looking at me i just start walking a big circle with good treats and click wehn they trot up beside into heel then build steps and move in different directions

We teach find heel fr set up which i use lets work and then of we go sometimes i say clse when i step off other times i dont dont know why i do guess its habit.

wehn im finished trial training i say its ll gone open hands we're done my dogs know then that they can sniff play walk to the end of the lead so long as they mind their manners they are pretty free to do what they like they can still get rewards but its not intense work anymore. my sheltie will somtimes look stunned wehn i free him when he ses al the activity around him he tends to block it out when we work.

Focus is the main thing a trial dog needs if you build strong focus then trianing is easy.

We went back to club on the wekend and im not sure if i will botther rejoining as i hated being there too many barking naughty dogs the grunds crap full of thistles so we may just train alone

[bloss344]

Static heel is taught pretty much with your correct footwork and the dog maintaining 'heel' I believe....

Then u gradually increase the steps etc. I think the dogs understand heel a lot better from this.

As I said - I haven't done it yet, but will let you know

I haven't done it either but as I understand it the turns are taught in the static positon giving the dog a solid idea of what 'heel' means in regards to position, then forward movement is begun.

[Rom]

I will also add this to my comment earlier - I wouldn't be training a dog at "most" clubs but rather would train the dog up myself and then use the club when I wanted distractions. That would depend very much on the club and how the classes are run but all the clubs here force huge amounts of heelwork on dogs from the very begining and long boring heel patterns starting from the age of 4-5 months and I don't think that is very conducive to producing a top or even an average scoring obedience dog.

Not saying all clubs train this way just the ones I have observed.

Oooh yeah...totally agree