Puppy Still Barking In Morning....

[Kylie and the black Lab]

back again - thing is..... once she is let in, she is totally fine!! She sits calmly waiting for me to go the loo etc. Follows me around until around 15 mins later we go for a walk. Of course she is excited at first so I rub her belly and give her pats...but there is absolutely no barking..

Given I need to leave for work at 7.45am, changing the routine isn't really an option as showering before walkies isn't really the go.... and I can't fathom getting up much earlier thatn 5.45!!!!

so is it fair to think that it may be the "baby" thing like Bruno and Rachelle are also experiencing - or is this a bad behaviour that is going to get worse?????

On weekends she doesn't instantly go for a walk, it can be up to an hour of just tinkering around inside before we walk her..... so her routine is mixed up a bit on weekends....

Also, given she has her own totally enclosed, waterproof houndhouse - which she voluntarily goes to for comfort, sleep etc..... would she really benefit that much from a crate... We have brought her inside on the odd night when whether is really bad and she has slept in the laundry but she has still barked?????

thanks everyone!

Kylie

Oh yeah - she gets walked in the evenings as well!!!

[sidoney]

From the way you have described it, the barking is more linked to you. She sees the reward for the barking as you getting out of bed, moving about. This is the way I read your description.

If you want to address the barking then you will need to do something about it, put more control into the situation, remove the "bark, get mum up" link. Hence the suggestion of crate in laundry, with radio. Otherwise, it looks like you and the neighbours will be living with the barking for some time.

Another possibility would be to use some kind of aversive for the barking, but I would not be doing that with a puppy.

[Dogsfevr]

I think what you need to understand that making a dog sleep outside doesnt make training any easier or lesser a problem.having a yard to roam around at night & toilet when it feels like means very little to the dog compared to its family companianship & getting excited about its morning routine.

If you want to have a sleep in the dog doesnt understand that,as far as its concerned every morning means a walk rain,hail or shine but above all the dog nows when the sun starts rising its getting closer to its people time.

You want your sleep the dog just wants its owners & special time.

What time do you place it out at night??

When is its last feed????

What is its nightly routine?????

How do you place it out????

Everytime it barks in the morning what do you do/what have you done?????

[Kylie and the black Lab]

Weekdays Jedda's routine is:

5.45 bark bark bark let in (when quiet) and play/walkies/ food until 8am

8am to 12.30 - sleep time and roam around yard. each day she has treats hidden for her to find and rotated toys to play with ( although when we are home she sleeps most of this time anyway)

12.30-1.15 - home for lunch, play time and a snack

1.30-6ish - sleep time and roam around yard

6-7pm - walkies

7pm - dinner

7-10pm - inside relaxing with us and getting lots of attention.

10pm - outside to hound house - patted and said "in your bed" she voluntarily goes in and makes no noise

Tues nights - goes in car to visit grandparents

Wed night - jnr dog school

Weekends - pretty much stays inside and follows us around wherever we are. Aren't generally out for long periods of time so she isn't alone for more than 4 hrs on a Sat or Sun.

Also if we go anywhere, like golf or beach or outdoor cafe she comes with us.

Hence, I just don't understand why she barks as we always get up around 6am. Even on weekends, I get up on Saturdays and my husband on Sundays. And in rain hail or shine!

Basically whenever she barks in the am - we try and ignore her for half and hour at most, but she is persistent and we then open the door only when she is quiet.

SHe is always included as a part of our family (fur child syndrome!)

She has a very special place in our family, but I'd like the human/dog boundary to have a slight impact!!

cheers, Kylie

[Dogs4Fun]

Weekdays Jedda's routine is:

5.45 bark bark bark let in (when quiet) and play/walkies/ food until 8am

8am to 12.30 - sleep time and roam around yard. each day she has treats hidden for her to find and rotated toys to play with ( although when we are home she sleeps most of this time anyway)

12.30-1.15 - home for lunch, play time and a snack

1.30-6ish - sleep time and roam around yard

6-7pm - walkies

7pm - dinner

7-10pm - inside relaxing with us and getting lots of attention.

10pm - outside to hound house - patted and said "in your bed" she voluntarily goes in and makes no noise

Tues nights - goes in car to visit grandparents

Wed night - jnr dog school

Weekends - pretty much stays inside and follows us around wherever we are. Aren't generally out for long periods of time so she isn't alone for more than 4 hrs on a Sat or Sun.

Also if we go anywhere, like golf or beach or outdoor cafe she comes with us.

Hence, I just don't understand why she barks as we always get up around 6am. Even on weekends, I get up on Saturdays and my husband on Sundays. And in rain hail or shine!

Basically whenever she barks in the am - we try and ignore her for half and hour at most, but she is persistent and we then open the door only when she is quiet.

SHe is always included as a part of our family (fur child syndrome!)

She has a very special place in our family, but I'd like the human/dog boundary to have a slight impact!!

cheers, Kylie

I know you are trying to do the right thing here, but she barks, you get up, and she gets what she wants. You. Out of bed. And her in the same space as you. You are training this behaviour and strengthening it every day. Waiting a few minutes while you are inside the door and she is outside the door is not teaching her to be quiet (or it would have worked by now). Its just part of the behaviour chain she has trained you in.

I agree that crate training her and getting her to sleep inside in a crate may well be a good solution for you. Even initially crating here where she can see you so she doesn't need to bark to get in contact with her pack in the morning. Once she can be comfortable with this, then you can slowly move her out of sight, and slowly slowly near the back door, and then slowly slowly outside if she can cope with that.

The other method is "extinction", something I have never had a lot of luck with. To be successful, she must NEVER get any reward for barking. No contact from you, no noise, no moving around the house, no yelling at her ... NOTHING. The theory is she will eventually learn that barking does not get her what she wants, and she will stop. I have a couple of problems with this. One: your neighbours will unlikely agree with the merits of this form of training, even with prior warning. Two: eventually, you will need to get out of bed to go to the toilet, go to work etc, and given your previous posts, this she will likely find this activity rewarding. Three: if you are like me, you will eventually snap and yell at her to be quiet, and this will reward her.

The other thing I suggest you need to assess is her routine. Making her life more random may help reduced this attention demanding behaviour. If she doesn't expect a walk in the morning, she will be less insistent that it happen when she is ready. She needs to learn that good things happen to those who wait, and that good things can happen any time of the day (as long as her behaviour is good).

Is there some reason why she cannot go in a crate and sleep inside at night in your household. At least for a few months until this problem is sorted out?

[R00]

At this risk of being shot around here, this is what I would do.

1/ Place dog in crate in Laundry

2/ When dog starts barking at 5am (or whatever time it is) I would wake up walk to the crate and cover the entire crate with a cover, don't say a word ( sheet, or what ever ( but something that will NOT turn the crate into a hot box) but something that will totally cover it.

3/Go back to bed

4/When dog stops barking, remove cover (again don't day anything) and go back to bed (this is the important step, at the moment he knows that he barks , you get up, he goes quiet he gets a walk). It is this step that will break the routine.

5/If dog starts barking repeat step 2

When you feel like getting up then take him for a walk. I would start this on a Saturday so you can actually do a big session straight up on the first day without rushing to work.

Obviously you don't do this non stop all day. But a couple of times each morning the dog will associate barking with getting covered (negative value) and will realise that you have just gone back to bed. This should totally throw him.

One of my sayings "Is my dog does not live in a democracy" he gets up when I get up, he goes for a walk when I want to take him ,he gets fed when I say and he gets a bath when I say and he gets free time when I say. Be the dogs leader and you will be rewarded, I take my dog everywhere, even to friends places for dinner and he is only 15 weeks old. I am the boss end of story. ( Well I think I am hahahahah, my wife may disagree)

Just my opinion.

Cheers

Roo

Edited March 28, 2007 by Roo

[Kylie and the black Lab]

Thanks everyone. i will discuss the crate option with hubby tonight...

couple of questions:

1. is it just me or does my apprehension come from the fact that a crate looks like a jail cell???

2. What size should I buy if we get one?

3. Wont she still need to pee/poo at 6am anyway???

4. when she is used to the crate, should we always shut the door at night or leave it open??

cheers, Kylie

[Dogs4Fun]

Thanks everyone. i will discuss the crate option with hubby tonight...

couple of questions:

1. is it just me or does my apprehension come from the fact that a crate looks like a jail cell???

2. What size should I buy if we get one?

3. Wont she still need to pee/poo at 6am anyway???

4. when she is used to the crate, should we always shut the door at night or leave it open??

cheers, Kylie

A dog is not a person and does not have a human's hangups about "jail". Dogs like a snug safe place to sleep and call their own. Look at most kennels. All of my dogs try to get into an open crate if there is one lying around the house, including my standard poodle trying to get into the little terriers' crates. "Head only mum, but I'm having a good time!" Make sure the dog learns the crate is a happy place, by making it comfortable (nice bed etc), and give her special toys or a bone etc that she can only have when she is in the crate. Start with short periods in the crate and build up the time. Like anything, quiet behaviour in a crate is something she needs to learn. The idea of uncovering and covering the crate but no verbal, physical or eye contact with the dog (post above) works well.

As far as size goes, she needs to be able to stand up, lie down comfortably and turn around. Thats all. A oversized crate can cause problems.

She will need to go to the toilet in the morning, but when YOU are ready to take her out. My pup can wait from bed time (10 ish) through to 8am or later if that suits us, but is usually given outside access earlier, as I am a morning person.

Many dogs learn to sleep in a crate and stay in it with the door open (and mine often choose to during the day), but to my mind, if you expect them to stay in there anyway (and they are happy to do so), what is the problem with closing the door?

[R00]

I had the same questions before I used a crate and same perceptions about it being a gaol (Jail for the americans).

Erik is the first dog I have used a crate with. I now recommend them to everyone I know with dogs.

My dog loves his crate as it is nice and snug and is his spot. The important thing to remember is the dog should never be sent to the crate when s/he is in trouble and can never really be in trouble for anything they do inside the crate, it is their den and needs to be treated as such.

In regards to the open and closing of the door, when I first started with Erik I would just walk past and close the door if he was laying inside on his bed and a few minutes later I would just walk past and open it. I would do this at random times with no song or dance. The pooch will get used to being locked inside and think nothing of it.

Providing that you never and I mean NEVER send him to the crate as a form of punishment or growl at him when he does something in there that he shouldn't have. The dog will think of the crate as an awesome happy personal space. Think of the crate as a Kennel with see through sides and a door. Most dogs I know love their 'solid' kennel. It is our perceptions that make us think of it as a gaol.

Cheers

Roo

[huga]

Kylie - my dogs love their crate, it is their safe space where they go to get away. I take them out for a wee before bed (usually 9.30pm) and then they usually put themselves to bed and I just shut the door when I go to bed. The crate is in the lounge room. I think crating is one of the best inventions in the world for dogs - previously my guys slept outside, but every now and then there would be a restless night where a cat would come into the yard and my guys would go balistic and wake us up. Not fun.

Anyway, I get up at around 6.30am and open the crate door, but my lazy buggers will not move until brekky is ready (usual an hr or so later) - so they have no problems 'holding on' - I think I go more often than they do.

My OH took this pic the other morning coz of how Harry was snoozing squished against the side of the crate. BTW - the door had been open for about an hour - they were just enjoying the sunshine and a sleep in

[R00]

@ Hugapuglet

Erik at 16 weeks is a lazy bum in the mornings also, I open his crate door around 6ish ( as I want to get out and about and take him for walk) he just raises one eye as if to say "not this morning dad, I am sleeping in" He wont leave his crate till I grab his front legs so he can stretch with me holding on to them. Funny dog, but he loves his crate

Eriks timetable:

10pm goes to crate on his own, I close door once he is in

1.30-2am I take him outside to wee ( he is still a pup) This will stop soon. He can probably hold on now but I am restless sleeper so it doesn't bother me at all

6ish as post above says.

[Kylie and the black Lab]

Thank you to everyone who has helped me (especially Roo, Hugapuglet & dogs4fun) you have all put my mind at ease about using a crate. I think this is definately the way to go and I think we will put it in the loungeroom too so it is her "den".

Where do you recommend we buy the crate from - ie the online sites or just go to a pet wholesaler?

Thinking we will start the crate training thisweekend with our bubba.

Again, thanks everyone, will keep you posted.

Any more ideas or comments, please let me know!!

Cheers, Kylie (&Wayne & Jedda)

[huga]

We got ours from a pet shop - it is a petmate one and cost around $100 (I think). It is great coz it is collapsible and we take it up the coast when we go so the kids have their own space at my parents place too.

Check on ebay also, I know a lot of people have had success getting a bargain on there.

Good luck with the crate training - you definately won't regret it, just remember to go slow at first on the shutting of the door - and don't force your dog in there, it will all happen in good time.

[sidoney]

I have a wagon and among my crates I own one with a door on the long side as well as the short side - this is great for travelling a dog or 2 and having easy access (numbers depend on the size of the dog, it's a Vizsla sized crate and can fit two Kelpie sized dogs easily). Door on short size is not great for access in a wagon.

I can leave the back of the car open to keep the dog cool when stopped, but dog is safe (e.g. a stop on a drive somewhere) and the dog won't jump out if I open the back door. Also good for travelling rescue dogs when I'm helping with rescue transport!!

Not sure what kind of car you have but it's worth mentioning.

[R00]

Thank you to everyone who has helped me (especially Roo, Hugapuglet & dogs4fun) you have all put my mind at ease about using a crate. I think this is definately the way to go and I think we will put it in the loungeroom too so it is her "den".

Where do you recommend we buy the crate from - ie the online sites or just go to a pet wholesaler?

Thinking we will start the crate training thisweekend with our bubba.

Again, thanks everyone, will keep you posted.

Any more ideas or comments, please let me know!!

Cheers, Kylie (&Wayne & Jedda)

No worries, Erik's crate is in the corner of our lounge room, under our dining table. He can see us 95% of time when he is in it. That way he can still be part of the family while he is in his bed. ( you know how dogs are, while they are sleeping they occasionally open one eye just to check everyone is still there)

Inside of Erik's crate, he has his bed ( one of the those soft basket types) a blanket inside it, and a couple of chew toys. He loves it. Occasionally I play around and act like I am trying to get inside it. Without a word of lie, he runs over all proud as if to show me his place and to help me get inside. Very funny.

[Kylie and the black Lab]

and a big thanks to Sidoney as well :p . I really appreciate all of your assistance.

Until we get a chance to get the crate on the weekend. I messed up the routine a bit thismorning by making a coffee and moving around the house before letting her in for a walk. She barked at the laundry door - I then did the "grrrr" noise - after the second one of these, she was quiet, so after 5 minutes of quiet I let her in. She did seem a bit like "hey what's going on here!"

My hubby was joking saying he would open the bedroom window and go "grrrr" whenever she barks at the AM!

[sidoney]

This would reward the dog for barking, since any attention is better than none!

(That's why kids often act up, it gets them attention, I had to listen to a mother do intense interaction with a kid that was acting up today, when she would have been much better ignoring the behaviour and rewarding for desired behaviour.)