Physical Versus Mental Health

[Cosmolo]

As you may have seen in previous posts, 2 of my dogs are suffering from arthritis at what i consider to be a fairly young age- 7 1/2 and 8 years old. The 7 1/2 year old had a massage last week which seems to have given some improvement- although she hasn't had any hard exercise since then that would normally cause her to pull up sore- she pulled up well from moderate exercise yesterday.

I have recommendations for acupunture, remedial massage, hydrotherapy etc etc. Here is my question- the 8 year old boy would become incredibly stressed with any of the mentioned treatments, to the point where he is likely to need a muzzle, urinate, squeal and generally consider the whole experience a huge ordeal. I do believe this would carry over beyond the treatment as well so not a case of short term pain for long term gain, there is a good chance it will affect his behaviour with strangers etc which is tentative as it is.

If it was your dog, would you explore treatments for a physical problem that would stress the dog to such a point where you believe their mental state would be adversely affected?

[Nekhbet]

what causes his reactions? Is it previous bad experiences, pain, weak nerves etc? Or does he react that way to all strangers.

If he is that stressed then the treatments wouldnt work anyway. They rely on relaxation and manipulation of a loose body. He could end up injuring himself further. Would it be better if the therapist came to visit you at home?

Stick to medications, supplements and maybe filling a bath with warm water and floating him in there yourself (if he's small enough) or if he's a large dog putting him in a warm bath and massaging him.

[Cosmolo]

Nekbhet- with total strangers he shows quite alot of avoidance- which obviously changes if that stranger needs to do something to him, a vet etc. Comes as a result of extremely weak nerves and average socialisation (he was a dog who needed great socialisation but was a working dog on a property so didn't meet many people, especially not strangers)

Wouldn't make a difference if the therapist was in the home- he might actually be slightly worse. And they were my thoughts as well regarding the effectiveness of the treatment being compromised. He is on a few supplements already, a good diet etc and will try the warm baths when he is particularly bad.

[haven]

I'd give it a go at least once, you may be pleasantly surprised at how well he does and how quickly he gets used to it as I have been when trying things like hydrotherapy and massage with Loki. I found that the people who administered the treatment were understanding enough to allow me to take on what part of the treatment I could instead of them (like fitting euipment, hloding him etc), listened when I made suggestions as to how best to behave around him and create an environment that would reduce stress and were experienced and skilled enought that they were able to relax him enough for the treatment to take place.

You could also consider learning how to take on part or potentially all of the treatment yourself to help reduce his stress, e.g. there are massage and physio courses available.

Would you consider medicating him with something like Valium for treatment if necessary? It's not ideal but it may be the lesser of two evils.

I used a heatpack on Nova when she got sore after her surgery alternated it with the massage and stretches that the physio/massage therapist showed me. Really worked well for her.

[Cosmolo]

Hadn't thought about the valium Haven- are there side effects? I would consider it- wouldn't like it but would do it if it was going to be good for him. Just to add, that he is even very uncomfortable/ stressed if we were to handle him (in terms of a massage or stretches) when he is sore. I know how to do some stretches and very basic gentle massage and even then he can only cope with very small doses. I don't want to stress him to a point where he is so tense that the treatment can't be effective. But i don't want him to be in physical pain either.. So confusing.. :D

[Staff'n'Toller]

I have been told by a Veterinary Behaviourist that Valium can cause an increased risk of the dog showing aggression, so it is not recommended *during* a stressful event as it poses a danger to handler and others working with the dog at the time.

They use it in a different way, and it would produce very good results....but....this was specific to a particular case, and I had to pay for the priviledge of the info. So I'm not posting any more here. Plus it's not fair to the Vet.

I have read your other posts and I really think you need diagnostic xrays first off, then treat accordingly. Dogs that are run hard in their early lives can certainly have arthritis symptoms by 8yrs. I know because I have one. :D

I would also be asking your Vet, and doing some research on the new NSAID's out now that can be used at a higher dose, with much less side effects and risk to the liver. Deramaxx and Previcox are a couple of drug names.

Cheers,

Mel.

Edited March 26, 2007 by Staff'n'Toller

[anniek]

HI Cosmolo,

We have a canine myofunctional therapist who works with our rescued greyhounds.

I've seen the most timid boy become so relaxed his teeth chattered while she was massaging him.

Please pm me if you would like her details. She is Melbourne SE.

In answer to your quetion though, my male greyhound is so terrified of the vets I would never consider long term treatment (multiple vet or hospital visits) for him if ever the time came he had some incurrable desease. I just wouldn't put him through it.

annieK

[Flames_Daddy]

A good friend suggested that breeding is about "Temperament first, then conformation" - I really think this is a sound approach. Thing is, physical and mental health are so intertwined that you really need to consider both to get a holistic healing happening. Just my 2 cents...

[Cosmolo]

staff n toller, can i ask how you think diagnostic x rays would help? I realise that may sound like a really dumb question (and i admit i have limited knowledge on this subject so feel free to correct me) but if the x rays were to show arthritis (as they can't show muscular problems) what different course of action could be taken other than what we've done already after a physical examination and diagnosis? Cartrophen, joint formulas, diet etc have already been explored and are ongoing.

[Staff'n'Toller]

Is the arthritis in the hindquarters or front legs as well?

[TangerineDream]

Cadence had arthritis in his last 6 - 12 months and aspirin (Solprin) gave him astounding relief - he went from a dog who didn't want to do anything because it hurt, to standing over you and demanding your toast - worth talking over with your vet......simple but effective.

[Cosmolo]

The arthritis in Otto is in his front legs and Jessie's is in her front wrists and hindquarters. Thanks for the suggestion tangerine, will mention it to the vet when i'm there next.

[Staff'n'Toller]

Well mainly I'm nosy and I like to see what's going on on the inside.

I guess I would be looking for bone chips, early osteosarcoma, really though I want to see what grade it is- they could be shocking and in that case I would not hesitate in helping the dog out with some NSAID's.

On the flip side, my sisters kelpie has lameness on one foreleg and after xrays the Vet reported that she was surprised at how lame Karla was in comparison with the pics- so now we will look at muscle therapy, and can start on measured controlled exercise rather than thinking the worst.

My Staffy OTOH has absolutely shocking elbows, so much so, that she is used as a measure stick at my practice ;) "worse than Gypsy's? Well that's sayin' something!!" Now she lives the life of Reilly as a couch dog most of the time.

Hope that explains a bit. :D

Mel.

[Trisven13]

I would probably give it one try to see how it worked. (Edited to fix wrong word)

I'm no expert on all this as you would all know BUT I have had a dog who we had to pts due to serious skin allergies. Not because of his allergies, but because of his reactions to the treatment - the treatment was more stressful than the allergies, and they gave him fortnightly hot spots.

This particular dog had a bad history with vets, he had his eye punctured by a cat when he was only 10 weeks old so was sedated for 2 weeks to allow it time to heal. He also had quite involved veterinary treatment at that time which made him quite panicky about vets. He started to improve but then broke his leg :D . When he was just under 2 years old he developed the allergies and the vet diagnosed air-borne allergens, so essentially he was allergic to stacks of stuff. We tried to treat him for a while but he had to be sedated for every single vet visit and he started to freak out everytime I had to give the sedation - it was just horrible.

In that instance we decided for a 3 year old baby that the kindest thing was to pts ;) . Devastatingly sad but even his breeder felt we were making the right decision for the dog. His name was Murphy and I always blamed it on Murphy's Law and refuse to allow anyone to name any of our rescue dogs Murphy - if it can go wrong, it will go wrong.

Edited March 26, 2007 by Trisven13

[Erny]

I think physical health affects mental health, so IMO they are both just as importantly interlinked.

I don't recall Otto or Jessie being that nervous of or snappy towards unfamiliar people. Is it just Vets that are the concern?

[Cosmolo]

Otto always has been to strangers, he had a good snap at one of the international students when they went to pat him when you would have known him Erny. He has gotten worse with total strangers- he used to approach them cautiously but now chooses to avoid them if he possibly can.

[Cosmolo]

Thanks for the explanation staff n toller, i am going to my vet today for something else so i might have a chat to them and see what they think.