ness Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 (edited) Hmm JulesP if you read what I had in my post regarding what I include when I plan (apart from the actual exercise). I also suggested that you need a plan of what you are going to do if the session goes pear shaped (or a plan B). That can include doing something really short that the dog is good at to end on a positive or I have been been known to scrap it entirely and finish up with a good game. So long as you then go back and readdress why things went pearshaped before starting out the next session and don't get into the habit of having to many bad sessions in a row everything is fine. Yep dogs sometimes have an off day and yep I can't see the point in pushing something if she clearly isn't interested. Having said that though there aren't many times I get her out now and can't get her to give 100% in a training session so I guess whatever I learnt in WA is working!!! As an aside I took her out to the club on Tuesday night (mostly because I had to renew membership for agility which is on a different night) but I took the opportunity to put her through a select few UD exercises in the ring. We just did the seekback, sendaway and directed jumping. She also did a retrieve over the jump (just because I haven't done one since October and wanted to see how she went). Her retrieve was brilliant. She had a few problems with her seekback (but probably wouldn't have if we had waited her out to find it - she went and tracked but got her way back to me and then the judge had me walk back a few paces along the track - set her up and send her again) - I know from training occassionally she comes back and tracks away from me back to the start but other than that the rest went very well. She left me the entire length of the ring and took herself back to the start peg (different from what we use in training) but she did it with confidence. Of all the things that could go wrong they didn't!!! . Her sendaways were all spot on as was her directed jumping. Not bad going since she hasn't ever really done one outside of our training and we have only been training since end of October (well actually sendaways and seekback only since the end of December/Early January). Shows that consistency does work . She was switched on and focused. Edited March 22, 2007 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Leopuppy, Shoemonster and myself must all be in a similar area? I am in Wandin. Am happy to get together for some training! I got absolutely caned for stuff stuff the other week when I wandered off to the trail class for some help. Figured I needed private lessons again, so this would certainly help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 (edited) Oh by the way the success I am having with Ness also goes to show how valuable videoing and just even emailing each other can be. Sure its not quite as good as having face to face contact with somebody but what I have trained with Ness in UD so far is all going on what I have been shown (the few sessions I had in Perth) but mostly on emails. I even got through being able to teach Ness to scent just going on what was emailed back and forth with regards to how to train. My monthly videos go back to WA and get criticised and then I try and make the appropriate corrections - mostly they are to what I am doing more so then anything the dog is doing wrong. . Edited March 22, 2007 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 I'm in Mt Waverley, and I think from memory LP might be somewhere near Pakenham possibly I go to KCC quite often and train at berwick as well if either of those are ok, otherwise I'm happy to go other places We are moving later this year to Cranbourne too which will be great!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Oh by the way the success I am having with Ness also goes to show how valuable videoing and just even emailing each other can be. Sure its not quite as good as having face to face contact with somebody but what I have trained with Ness in UD so far is all going on what I have been shown (the few sessions I had in Perth) but mostly on emails. I even got through being able to teach Ness to scent just going on what was emailed back and forth with regards to how to train. My monthly videos go back to WA and get criticised and then I try and make the appropriate corrections - mostly they are to what I am doing more so then anything the dog is doing wrong. . I agree - i'm not up with the vids yet as I don't have a vid camera (but perhaps we soon will have luck!), but that was the best form of critique. I got great help from a friend in NSW about *everything*, so I just need to get the vids happening more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I'm in Mt Waverley, and I think from memory LP might be somewhere near Pakenham possiblyI go to KCC quite often and train at berwick as well if either of those are ok, otherwise I'm happy to go other places We are moving later this year to Cranbourne too which will be great!!!! LOL - waaaay off! I'm about 1 hr away from Pakenham .... but I sent you a PM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Oh well someone I met recently is from Pakenham then! I have a digital camera that takes video, up to 2 gig or 1 hour I think, so we can use that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 (edited) Inconsistency in training and expectations of behaviour guidelines must be one of, if not THE, most endemic of human faults. I always try to make a point of explaining this to novice handlers and to reminding them as their training experiences increase. Often, I don't think the majority of people acknowledge this or believe it is as important as I stress it is, until they encounter training issues and then recognise those issues disappearing once they practice consistency. I guess that's our own learning curve. SM - fantastic that you've gone down this path and made the realisation of where and how you might have been being inconsistent. IMO, that is one revelation forward into understanding our dogs more intimately than before. Edited March 22, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Thanks Erny It's funny cos as I thought more about it last night I felt my attitude changing and you should have seen how different Ed was, it was fantastic, it is a great new beginning I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 SM- i'm happy to train with you at Southern, its just around the corner from us and your not too far from where we live. Plans are good but you need to be prepared to deviate from them if necesary. I would write a list of what you need to work on- in detail. Decide once and for all on the techniques and equipment you are going to use- verbal markers, clickers, corrections, release words- all of these things i see people be inconsistent with. Sometimes corrections, sometimes not, sometimes release word, sometimes not. Decide what will work best for you and your dog and stick with it- no more chopping and changing!! And btw, it was great to meet you and your furry ones last night SM- Ed is an absolute spunk and is very very capable!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 I see people correct their dogs in a really aggressive manner (or the instructos telling people to correct and the handler nearly yanking their dogs head off) and I have rebounded from that, and I can't be like that, but a calm quick correction he really responds to well with an uh. He is reactive to them without being soft to them, now that I've finally figured out how to correct him When I was like this with him, he was way more enthusiastic than I have seen him, and as I've said before, he has been bribed with food in the past, there was no food to be seen and he was loving it, he barely needed a correction and he was so happy to get praise at the end I need to get rid of the guilts of this (even as I'm writing it I feel guilty like people will think I'm a bad person or that I hurt my dog) lol yeah he's a spunk and he knows it! Cosmo and Georgie are absolutely adorable and sooo good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Shoey - absolutely nothing wrong with a correction if used in the right context and at the right time. My guys get corrected . there is such a thing as too much positive training IMO . There is no reason why a clicker and a correction can't work hand in hand. I do however think 'carefully' about whether or not I want to correct a particular behaviour, and usually the only thing that gets corrected is general disobedience and not during training when the dog does something wrong . Don't beat yourself up about it- nobody would think you mistreat your dogs..... hang on - yep - you mistreat your dogs now can I have eddie??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 SM, giving a well timed appropriate level correction is not cruel and doesn't hurt the dog. Georgie is more confident now than she was before the training we've done, and as you saw, its a combination of positive reinforcment and corrections. Corrections should never be given in anger or frustration either and effective lead handling skills and timing will mean that you can give a correction at a much lower level and it will still be effective. The reason why you found that he was more enthusiatic was because things were really clear to him and dogs love that. Clients of mine get confused when after i've worked with their dog and given a few corrections, the dog seems to 'like' me even more. And i say to them that its not that the dog likes the correction, but that they LOVE the clarity that comes from it when used appropriately and in combination with rewards for the good stuff! Thanks for the comliments about Georgie and Cosmo- Georgie still has a long way to go but she's lots of fun to train and considering how long we've had her, we're really happy with what she can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 (edited) Well I feel alot better now I have that off my chest I was so happy when he ignored Molly walking past last night and he looked back to me instead! it was great! and when he stayed while you were running the girls past! How good was he! I won't get too cocky yet, but it was a great start! Oh and LP, ummm let me think about it.......... NO!!!!! Edited March 22, 2007 by shoemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 The happiest dogs I've seen are those who know they have a "leader". And why not? All the pressure is off them to think it is their responsibility to make decisions and govern the pack . As a leader, you gain respect and in the nature of dogs, this is given quite willingly and joyfully. Leadership is about being firm but fair, and very clear about your requirements. Cheers SM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy's mum Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Shoey, When you build your house you'll be less than 5 mins away from my house...... we should definately train the pooches together then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 So right Erny, just taken me a while to get my head around it! RM, yeah for sure!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Shoemonster oops sorry i though you were playing definitions rofl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Oh don't pick on me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 what its oly the truth darl hehehheheheheheheheheheheheheh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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