Chicken Frames Causing Constipation

[Tibbiemax71]

Just got back from Puppy Preschool with my foster Greyhound pup, the vet was talking today about feeding bones, she asked who fed bones and what kind, I told her I feed chicken frames, lambs flaps and she said that chicken frames were not a good idea as it can turn "concrete like" and cause extreme constipation, where the dog might actually need to be flushed out. She said its more of a concern with old dogs as their digestive system is slower, she also said the pet mince that has minced up bone in it does the same thing, I think the "Lenards" mince has bone in it. Just wondering if anyone had ever had any problems with constipation with feeding their dogs Chicken frames or the mince, I give my 2 older dogs the BARF patties and use the "Lenards" mince and they get the chicken frames, lambs flap and off cuts. The vet also said the only bones she recommends is the split in half "recreational bones" Its taken me a while to feed my dogs confidently on bones now my vet is freaking me out

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Ignore this poor advice IMO. Many vets don't know anything about canine nutrition, b/c they don't actually study it to become a vet. Plus they do receive commissions and profits from selling processed foods.

I don't use mince of any kind, it's a waste of money IMO. I use the raw meaty bones as they are. 'Recreational bones' are just that: something to keep your dog busy while you're out. You want proper bones for feeding your dog. Chicken parts are good, so are lamb parts (neck, ribs/flap, shank but take the bone away b/c it's too hard), beef (brisket, ribs, spine), roo (all parts), and if your dog tolerates it try some pork but small quantities to begin b/c it can cause nasty side effects (sloppy poo).

Also feed offal (organs) and pulverised vegetables and fruit. Give some yoghurt every second or third week. Add some canned fish (sardines and mackerel are great!) every couple of weeks. And that's your basic raw foods diet. Oh, some raw egg from time to time won't hurt either. ;)

I've been raw feeding for a number of years, and my greyhound does fantastic on it. All my dogs do great on it, but GHs have sensitive tummies so many processed foods cause upsets. Raw doesn't usually have the same effect.

[Kaz]

From what I've gathered, your vet is right in a way. Bones can be bad for some dogs and different types and sizes of bones are better for some dogs than others.

I have an older dog here at the moment that recently suffered a blockage because of bones. I have been advised the same as you were, to only feed large bones that she can't chomp up and compromise her digestive system.

I am going to follow that advice to be on the safe side but I still feed my other dogs bones regularly. I wouldn't be too worried about it in your case MLH.

I like Lillys Mums recipe for a healthy diet though I have no problem feeding a high quality dry food either.

ETA Never had greys though.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Kaz

[haven]

I don't think you should totally ignore this advice, but i agree somewhat with LM in that it's no cause to panic. Feeding a more natural diet does often result in faeces being firmer than you would normally get from a dog on a commercial diet, which is fine. If you are feeding the correct proportions for your dog then constipation shouldn't be an issue but if every now and then you do notice your dog straining more than they really should need to, just adjust their diet accordingly.

I have personally never had any problems with my dogs having 'extreme constipation' although neither are what I would call old (both are around 8yrs old) and both are fed entirely on a natural diet.

I find it interesting that your vet only recommends "split in half recreational bones" as I assume this to mean weight baring bones such as shanks, marrow bones etc and these are actually the only ones I personally think you have real cause to be concerned about.

Edited March 21, 2007 by haven

[Dogsfevr]

I now of many dogs who have required emergency surgery to remove bone build up & the advice isnt total rubbish .

It is more common than people wish to accept & many people have ended up with mega vet bills to fix the build up .

Some may say the vets advice is poor but the vets i now arent food police but deal with the surgery some of the diets can cause each week so it isnt something i w ould ignore

[Tilly]

We feed our boys lots of chicken frames, chicken necks and brisket bones. We don't feed marrow bones because they tend to splinter and our elderly rottie can't chew on them - the brisket bones are softer. I have never seen constipation caused by the bones but occassionally our rottie will get smelly gas if he eats too many bones.

I would suggest you just watch the dog - if you find the bones are causing constipation then just cut back.

[KOE]

Dont ignore the advice your vet gives if you trust them fully.

I feed bones and frames and the GSD"S dont poo as much with frames

[ish]

I've had my greyhound pup since he was about 9 weeks (I think?) and he's always been fine with chicken frames, lamb flaps, brisket bones and the big marrow bones. Recently I've started him on lamb necks to help his teeth and hes had no issues with them. He's also had munched up carcass mince, including lenards mince with no dramas - but I have heard of dogs who have problems with either the high fat content of the lenards mince or too much bone. If my GSDs have a marrow bone, sometimes they get a bit blocked up with bone so I give them a bit extra flaxseed oil and sardines/tuna with their normal meal to help - works for them.

I've had a vet recently tell me never to feed the big marrow bones as the marrow is too rich and will cause pancreas problems - I think sometimes you've just got to take on board all the info you get, research it and if it comes up ok then decide what works for you and your dogs.

[Jed]

Your vet is right.

But, don't panic!!

I feed my dogs bone in chicken mince (not Lenards) as part of a BARF diet. They also get bones.

The chicken mince can be inclined to make them constipated, particularly the older ones.

However, the addition of veges, particularly greens, and sardines once a week + corn or sunflower oil a few nights a week means there are no problems.

However, if they have only chicken mince for a few days, and bones - nothing else - they may become constipated, but the addition of sardines to their meal sorts them out.

[sidoney]

My experience is the same as Jed's. If too many bones in a period, poos can get too hard, but if you mix it up, it stays about right - be observant and if poos are looking too hard, put more non bone food into the balance.

[Bubitty]

I alternate every night between chicken frames and mush meal with pureed veggies in it.

It's really obvious when he poos, after he has the frames the stools are rock hard and concrete like, after the mush the stools are solid but much softer in consistency. Bub cant handle frames for 2 straight days in a row so this routine works for him.

[Tibbiemax71]

Thanks so much for all your replies ;) I have been feeding the BARF diet for about 2 months or so now and havnt noticed constipation yet, my old dog is 11 and half years old so was worried about her, in the BARF patties they get the fruit and veggie mush, they get this every night and either a lamb off cut, lamb flap or chicken frames as well. I have notice a great improvement in the poo department I will start giving them sardines and some sort of oil as well. Thanks again, will stop freaking out now

[espinay2]

What you are doing sounds fine and if you aren't having a problem, then there isn't one .

chicken mince/frames have a high ratio of bone to meat. If you are feeding them on their own, then yes, they will form harder, often dry crumbly poos. Feeding a higher percentage of meat with the bone and/or some organs along with the chicken frames/mince will alleviate this (you are pretty much doing this by feeding the patties).

Often if I am feeding frames I will give the dogs a lamb kidney, a few chicken livers or a chunk of lamb/beef liver or heart along with it. Or I just feed meatier pieces (chicken quarters, lamb necks, lamb flaps etc etc)

[EllieD]

She has suffered constipation from chicken frames, so i now limit them to once a week,

and she has the occasional lamb neck bones also has a tin of sardines once a week,

the rest of the time Nutro with raw vegs, and an egg once a week, and she is doing fine,

no more constipation!

[Nekhbet]

dogs still need fibre. If i feed mine too many bones they get hard poos that are difficult to pass so I cut down the bones and up the kibble/veges. It can if you fed it as a majority of the dogs diet but as long as the proportions of fibre is in there then there is no worries. You can add some bran to the food if you see the bones clogging them up too much.

[Poodle wrangler]

I know this sounds irky, but I check what my dog's poo looks like when I'm on 'poo patrol' (usually daily as I've got kids who play in the backyard). This way you get an idea if there are any problems. In a chronically constipated dog, they might have 'overflow' where loose poo gets out around the stuff which is kind of stuck.

Would be much nicer if dog's could talk and tell you there's a problem .

Glad to hear your dog's doing better.

[poodlefan]

I find my older boy can get a bit constipated if he's had a couple of days of chicken bones (usually wings or drumsticks) and he's missed his morning exercise. On rainy days I try to feed a softer meal.

Sooo - don't forget the part that exercise plays in the equation.