Trouble With Recall

[Kerrin]

Hope ive put this in the right place if not pls forgive me im new to all this.

I have a 3yr old mally who up untill the last 6 months was perfect now all of a sudden he has become a teenager with selective hearing.Inside and in the yard he is spot on but if we are outside off leash and he see's a bird a person.another dog ..infact anything at all that he feels needs investigation he is off like a rocket and wont come back till he is good and ready.I worry beacuse he is a large dog and it frightens people also he is more then happy to bolt across the rd.

I have have tried a 20ft lunge lead let him go to end then recall works everytime but soon as off lead..off he goes also tried food rewards. A few people have said to me that because he is a malamute it is in his nature to chase things i agree with that but also many have said its just how they are and he will have to be kept on lead..this i dont agree with.

Any suggestions or ideas would be great thanks in advance.

[Sayreovi]

While i cant help with recalls, my dogs arent that great, i would suggest too not let your dog off lead at all until he is reliable. Would hate if he did attack another dog or worse get hit by a car running after something.

[Tonymc]

Kerrin,as you know yourself you need to do alot more recall Training with Distractions. Have you utilised His Prey Drive in the Training? Tony

[Kerrin]

While i cant help with recalls, my dogs arent that great, i would suggest too not let your dog off lead at all until he is reliable. Would hate if he did attack another dog or worse get hit by a car running after something.

he is dog friendly ..but i do worry about cars..trouble is everytime i think he has got it days later he lapses

[Sayreovi]

While i cant help with recalls, my dogs arent that great, i would suggest too not let your dog off lead at all until he is reliable. Would hate if he did attack another dog or worse get hit by a car running after something.

he is dog friendly

Mmm thats great.......ever thought about the other dog he will be running up too?

Keep your dog on lead till you have it under control for the safety of everyone.

[Kerrin]

Kerrin,as you know yourself you need to do alot more recall Training with Distractions. Have you utilised His Prey Drive in the Training? Tony

hi tony,

i have been doing it since he was a puppy..he is very food focused and it all works brilliant on a lead and use to work off lead to,

like i said its only been the last six months and its driving me nuts as now he cant come to the beach and many places he used to go unless i tie him up.

[Tonymc]

Kerrin,at this stage what is he more interested in,Food or a moving Prey Object? Tony

[Kerrin]

toller,thats what i have been doing.but it wont help my problem..yes it will keep everyone safe tho.

[Kerrin]

tony,id have to say moving prey

[Sayreovi]

toller,thats what i have been doing.but it wont help my problem..yes it will keep everyone safe tho.

Yes you're right, it wont help, but it wont make the problem as worse if you let the dog off lead and he doesnt come back.

Hope you can train him too be good off lead.

[Kerrin]

so do i toller fingers crossed

[Tonymc]

Kerrin this Dog is responding to his Prey drive which he needs to satisfy.Do you have any thing such as Balls tugs so on?You need to set the situation up where you are supplying a way for him to satisfy his Prey Drive.Have a search through this Site and do a Google on Prey Drive and Training in Prey Drive. Tony

[Kerrin]

he likes to retrive the ball or tug toy maybe 3or 4 times then just ignores it

thanks for your advice tony..will have a look now

[Cosmolo]

Kerrin i'd suggest seeing a trainer like k9 force to show you what can be achieved with an e collar/ remote trainer. You can have a reliobale recall with a Mal- a friend of mine had 7 mals and almost all of hers were very reliable

[MrsD]

I wouldnt be using a lunge lead, waiting til he gets to the end of it & calling him back or trying to lure him with treats, I would be putting him on a really light 20m line made of something like parachute chord etc & standing on it when he takes off on you. When he comes back after hitting the end of the line, give him a high value reward. By ignoring your commands, he's chosing his own consequences, it's not like he doesnt know what the command means.

Other than that I agree with Cosmolo on trying an e-collar. Dogs that aren't reliable on their recall are dangerous, not only to themselves, but to other animals, other dogs & other people. Hope you get it sorted out soon .

[Kerrin]

Kerrin i'd suggest seeing a trainer like k9 force to show you what can be achieved with an e collar/ remote trainer. You can have a reliobale recall with a Mal- a friend of mine had 7 mals and almost all of hers were very reliable

cosmolo...ive been to k9's site and read a few of his posts on here..they sound great but im like 3hrs away from kurrajong but if all else fails i think maybe a trip down there would be a good idea.Ive been looking at those collars hoping to pick up a cheap one on ebay.

[Kerrin]

Thanks mrsD i definatley try that while waiting to find a cheap e collar.

sounds like a good idea as he always preforms better when he thinks it was his idea lol.

[Working_Setters]

you're releasing the dog into an environment you can't control before it's ready, and everytime he ignores the recall, it makes it that much harder to break the habit.

As suggested an e-collar is one way to correct the problem, provided you know how to use it. I'd suggest a 3hr drive to see a knowledgeable pro would be money well spent in this case. I'd also be a little careful about cheap 2nd hand e-collars, on the one hand the may lack the range and level of stimulation to deter a hard running Mal at distance, and on the other hand the last thing I'd want is an e-collar that the stimulated the dog at the wrong time, or at the wrong level of intensity. I'd err on the side of caution, following the old motto that you get what you pay for, and get the best quality collar you can afford. I'm not sure if there are any pros that might hire out a collar for a couple of months, b/c that's about all you'll need it for to solve this problem.

Else I recommend alternative ways to enforce your recall command and teach your dog that recall isn't optional. The light 20 cord suggested could be of assistance (wear gloves to prevent rope burns). I make a good deal of use of semi-confined places (eg fenced dog parks), they give the dog the illusion of freedom, thus tempting him to ignore the recall, but it's quite easy to run your dog down and correct them, should they not recall on command. Fenced dog parks also have the advantage of keeping your dog safe from roads/cars during this training. Initially go early in the morning when there are few other uses to scare with a large semi-controlled dog.

Also find some high level distractions (birds etc) and train your dog to recall in the face of them when on a long line etc. Then move the distract to the other side of a wire mesh fence, so the dog can see it clearly, but can't get it (ENSURE the dog cant get it), then train recall with your dog off leash.

Bottom line, dog must recall on command, first time every time, and it's up to you to engineer situations where you can promptly enforce the recall command if the dog should choose to ignore it, until he's 100% on the highest level distractions, then you can turn him loose in public.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Working_Setters

[ILFC]

Having the same problem- what do you do when the time when your dog is naughty when there is lots of dogs (i.e. the distraction) and you want to train in this time- i.e. it is dangerous to have a long line (made of whatever material) and food around other dogs. (A few of the dogs at the park are food agressive.) They mill everywhere and when I call him and he comes so do about 2 or 3 others- for the food. I really want to deal with this as I want a dog that i can trust everytime. His recall is superb when there is not the high stimulation of lots of dogs- but I want it every time. Any suggestions? (He is not that fussed on toys etc. either-this is not high value enough to make him leave the exciting dogs). I attend obedience training every week-his recall is fine there too-even if there are distractions.

[Working_Setters]

To clarify my post above (and to partly answer FCs question) recall training (like all training) should be exactly that TRAINING not testing. The dog should succeed +90% of the time and receive generous praise for that success, dogs learn by successful repetitions, if they aren't succeeding +90% of the time, then you've set the training bar too high. Don't jump straight from low level distractions to high level distractions, you must spend a lot of time working your way gradually through the mid level distractions. Every now and then you'll test your dog in trying situations, but do so carefully and infrequently as failure to obey the given command can be costly.

FC - I'd work on other non-dog mid-level distractions for awhile first, if your dog isn't recalling +90% of the time, there is little use persisting with the current training as all you're teaching the dog is that recall is optional. I agree there is a huge leap b/t Ob class recalls and dog park recalls. One mid-level distraction you might try is to run your dog in an enclosed space with another extremely well trained dog and their owner, then give recall, the extremely good dog will come, making the required behaviour obvious to your dog, and correction easier to apply as now your dog will be on it's own. A good friend of mine trains this way, she has a pack of extremely well trained dogs, she tells me that each new dog that's introduced to the pack is really trained by the pack, since when she hits the stop whistle, the pack sits, and if the newcomer does not, then the incorrect behaviour is obvious and correction easy. Then you can add a second extremely well trained dog to the mix, what you're trying to achieve is a competition b/t the dogs, who can recall the fastest and get the praise/treats for doing so. Dogs, like humans, can be very jealous and I find this jealousy can be an excellent training tool.

Lastly -if you dog is free running in a high level distraction environment and you don’t think your dog will recall, then don't give the command. Wait until the dog has run off that initial burst of energy, chased away that seagull, sniffed that other dog, then when it disengages with the distraction and returns (at least some) attention to you, recall. Recall loud and enthusiastically to give most chance for success and much praise when it comes. Don't let your dog lose in a dangerous situation where you can't afford to wait for the right moment to recall.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Working_Setters