bridgie_cat Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Hey guys! So I have spent the last few months building a duck house and then a herding yard which I finished the other day! Me and Lana have been in playing with the ducks a few times now and we have gone from her smelling the gound, slightly interested but defers avoiding those weird animals! to her holding them on the fence stressing them to the max, to me helping her get them off the fence and then Lana running nice circles around them, keeping them in a nice group. So now that we have nice circles... I figure I need to teach her the directions "come by" and "away to me" and also the drop on the other side of the ducks (atm I say drop and she comes back to me and does it at my feet...)... but I am wondering what else I should be doing at this early stage... and also how best to teach these basic comands. Thanks Bridget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 There are many ways of starting dogs working stock, so this is what i would suggest and others will probably suggest their ways. It depends a bit upon how much instinct your dog has for working but you can bring it out in some dogs. I would start giving her a purpose instead of her just running in circles. You should start moving in a straight line and get her to arc back and forth behind the ducks, getting her to bring them to you. When you reach the side, you turn around and walk back the other way. This is balancing, which means that she is always on the other side of the stock. Does she do this naturally at all? I would not be putting sides on her till she was bringing the ducks to you. I would also be teaching her to recall off the ducks and also to sit when she is working them. Once she can balance nicely, sit and come, i would then start teaching side commands. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridgie_cat Posted March 18, 2007 Author Share Posted March 18, 2007 Thanks Jesomil Im not sure if she does that naturally at all... she understands that to get the ducks off the wall she = other side of me ... but other than that I think she enjoys following them around with me on the same side... hmmm... she has not attempted to bring them to me at all. Yard = smallish... so may have to fix this before trying the side to side bit... but will try it and see how it goes. How do I get her to stay on the other side of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkNBCs Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Im not sure if she does that naturally at all... she understands that to get the ducks off the wall she = other side of me ... but other than that I think she enjoys following them around with me on the same side... hmmm... she has not attempted to bring them to me at all.Yard = smallish... so may have to fix this before trying the side to side bit... but will try it and see how it goes. How do I get her to stay on the other side of them? First of all I would make sure that your yard is rounded off - if necessary put some sheet diagonally across the corners - as it is very hard for a young inexperienced dog to dig sheep ducks or anything else out of the corner. If she is doing circles at the moment I would walk away and see what she does - she should keep the ducks moving towards you - as she does it walk away again so she is constantly getting them to walk towards you - as Vickie says, this is balancing and the basis for all stock work. If she is not bringing them towards you when you walk away and just following them where she wants to - first of all try and block her off with the rake (dont hit her - just put it there in good time) to get her to change direction if that fails seek help with someone who has done it before - there are a few people in SA who do herding or there is the three sheep gang too. I would not worry about sides and a stop until she is balancing naturally as you could put that instinct back to sleep if she gets a fright or senses a correction - but I would consider maybe a gentle recall so you are confident that you can call her off. I found the best way to do it was let the dogs have the sheep again most of the time and then gradually reduce the frequency - certainly with my dogs any reward other than letting them have their sheep again was pretty much a waste of time. Hope this is some help Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 (edited) as Vickie says, this is balancing and the basis for all stock work not me...although I certainly agree with it. Here is a very short clip of me starting balancing with my pup. You can see how I use the rake to help her make the right choices about going around the sheep rather than sticking with me. I am sure there are better examples but it should show the way you can influence how they move in a small area. Each time she makes the right choice I tell her "good girl". I would also thoroughly recommend taking her somewhere for training. What are your goals with her? Edited March 20, 2007 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkNBCs Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 as Vickie says, this is balancing and the basis for all stock work not me...although I certainly agree with it. I would also thoroughly recommend taking her somewhere for training. What are your goals with her? Ooops it was Jesomil - nice clip of Shine btw - how many times had she been on sheep when you took that. As a bit of an aside but still part of the same topic - how old were your dogs the first time you showed them sheep? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 (edited) how many times had she been on sheep when you took that.As a bit of an aside but still part of the same topic - how old were your dogs the first time you showed them sheep? That's pretty much her first time. She did escape into a paddock at 14 weeks for a few minutes and she has been in a yard on a line a couple of times just getting comfortable moving amongst them & recalling but this is the first time I have let her go or asked anything of her. She's 10 months. Here's another one: Edited March 20, 2007 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkNBCs Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 That's pretty much her first time. She's 10 months.Here's another one: Way to go Vickie - it is particularly impressive how calm she is, even allowing for the fact they are quiet sheep. I assume then that you didnt show her sheep until she was over six months old? Are you planning to do three sheep or ANKC herding with her or even both? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Way to go Vickie - it is particularly impressive how calm she is, even allowing for the fact they are quiet sheep. I assume then that you didnt show her sheep until she was over six months old? I know, I am really excited at how calm she is. She was very calm at 14 weeks, nothing silly, just went around them like she had done it 100 times before & fetched to me in a very large paddock with not so quiet sheep. I have been hoping all this time that it was a good sign of things to come & it seems so far that it is. She didn't see sheep (other than that 1st time till around 9mths). Both her parents are calm, sensible & confident so it's not really luck. Are you planning to do three sheep or ANKC herding with her or even both? I have no interest in ANKC herding, but would like to have a go at 3 sheep when we're ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 After seeing everybody's dog's first time on sheep I am :rolleyes: at how calm they are! Kaos was NUTS and I wish I'd videod it to show everyone! Then I could be and at what he did. Can't wait to give it another go - I have more control now in general so that should help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkNBCs Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Kaos was NUTS and I wish I'd videod it to show everyone! Then I could be and at what he did. Can't wait to give it another go - I have more control now in general so that should help. Kavik - a lot of the dogs that are nuts when they start calm down into really good sheepdogs so I am glad you are sticking with it - good luck your next session. Vickie I am thinking of showing my new pup sheep at around three to four months - I was close to sending my trainer mob to the butcher (heartless or what) and then luckily never got round to it so I have some nice quiet woollies for him to play with. Serious work wont start though until about the same age you got Shine working because he just wont be strong enough. Little so and so is already showing every sign of being fearless and confident at all of 8 weeks - hopefully he will also be calm. I dont intend to get it videod <G> think it is something I will just go off and do quietly by myself. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkNBCs Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I have no interest in ANKC herding, but would like to have a go at 3 sheep when we're ready. I am doing three sheep too and will also be going to my first yard trial at Easter. I am also going to give ANKC herding a shot this year because the guy I train with reckons that my younger dog Tex needs as much exposure away from home as possible and it will be good for him. Laydee, my older dog, is now nine and getting a bit creaky and I reckon the smaller courses and quieter sheep or ducks will enable me to give her a couple more years once 3 sheep and yard trialling gets too physically demanding for her. She just loves to work and I would like to keep her working as long as she is able and still wants to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridgie_cat Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share Posted March 25, 2007 I would also thoroughly recommend taking her somewhere for training. What are your goals with her? Hard as the adelaide herding thing is only on occasionally and then it is a 5hr drive if I am able to get out of everything here for a couple of days... I did go to one training and she did well on the sheep (running circles!) I am not sure what my goals are... I am currently working towards titling her in obed and perhaps agility if she can look away from the borders long enough to do a few tricks for me! I dont really know what you do in herding... it just looks like so much fun! I guess probably to trial with her if we end up getting any good at it. I have been away so havent tried any of your suggestions yet - but will be going out asap!!! First of all I would make sure that your yard is rounded off The yard = circular but is attached to the ducks house/yard so I cannot do a full 360 and teach her to balance on the outside like I have read/seen in some places. More so she enjoys holding them on the fence because they panic and this is clearly fun... but I have been able to stop this so it is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvertravis Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 After seeing everybody's dog's first time on sheep I am at how calm they are! Kaos was NUTS and I wish I'd videod it to show everyone! Then I could be ;) and :D at what he did. Can't wait to give it another go - I have more control now in general so that should help. How is Kaos going - what have you been up to with him - could you send me some photos?? I have two half sisters to him at home (same sire different mother) at the moment, one my husband has kept and the other I am trial training for Mary Mc - also training Ted with Bryone who is a full brother so its nice to be able to keep an eye on the litter. We are doing a workshop in May - I know Victoria is a long way from you, however, we would love to see you both and make sure your on the right track regarding your training. And don't stress about him being over keen - Jim tells me he was very impressed with what he saw of the dog - and that is praise from a very well respected Kelpie man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Kaos is going well. We are doing well in our foundation agility training, and we are going to agility classes (not in the classes just yet but go and watch and do our own thing). He was getting a bit overexcited by being in a class in agility as it is a very busy club so we are working on getting him used to the environment (and me too). He is certainly very keen! When in May is the workshop? It would be great to go if I could fit it in. It is good to know that Jim was impressed - after watching all these videos of lovely calm Border Collies working I was starting to think maybe Kaos was a bit crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidoney Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 LOL I'm making very early enquiries about flying down with Xia for the workshop. We could go together if it pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 That would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvertravis Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Kaos is going well. We are doing well in our foundation agility training, and we are going to agility classes (not in the classes just yet but go and watch and do our own thing). He was getting a bit overexcited by being in a class in agility as it is a very busy club so we are working on getting him used to the environment (and me too). He is certainly very keen!When in May is the workshop? It would be great to go if I could fit it in. It is good to know that Jim was impressed - after watching all these videos of lovely calm Border Collies working I was starting to think maybe Kaos was a bit crazy Hi Kavik, Workshop is Saturday 12th May - would love to see you if you can make it. Don't make the mistake of comparing Borders to Kelpies - two different breeds for two different jobs. Borders will also take more training at an early age, I have seen dozens of Kelpies ruined by workers trying to screw them down to early in life - I am sure Kaos is just keen, the more he is exposed to sheep you will lose this frantic behaviour. I am slowly turning to the darkside - I have two more border pups on on order one is an aussie bred pup from Dodge/Tungali lines and the other pup from imported Irish/Scottish lines - . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidoney Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Shocked I am, shocked! Will look forward to hearing more about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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