Staffy Puppy Chasing ( Trying To Kill! Cat) Problems

[RobbieRules]

Help.

This puppy stuff is wearing me out.

I got home from o/s 2 days ago to discover 4 month old Staffy has had little formal education continued by daughter and after a previously cordial relationship with the 12 yr old cat this has rapidly disintegrated.

Our middle aged schnauzers have always chased the cats that cross their paths. They're all bark and no bite and this is their 'thing' that makes them feel really cool.

However, adding Charlie the Staffy has obviously altered the status quo. 3 dogs now makes a pack *sigh* and their chasing

has made her quite ? aggresive ( not sure) but determined yes.Yesterday for the 2nd time she caught up with our cat and they proceeded belt the carp out of each other. Molly the cat was held in a death grip by Charlie around the neck , jaws locked, slathering and growling. Trying to drag them apart was no mean feat, and both ended up with nasty scratches. I suspect it was me that gave the Charlie the haematoma in her eye from belting her so hard, and that is unheard of from me. 'NO' and 'Bad' had no impact on her at the time, although she is learning these. ( well, she is only a puppy) She has scratches all over her from Molly's attempts at self preservation.

This is one determined dog that has bounded her way into our previously happy lives and is treading on everyones proverbial toes.

I'm frightened i'm going to come home one day and find my cat in 10 different pieces. She deserves a more dignified death that this!

HOw do i get into Charlie's head and teach her some respect.?

i'm clueless.

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[RobbieRules]

as of this morning, ( another seek and destroy attack on the cat) i've made a couple of observations. Principally, the cat is not getting hurt. lots of fur and noise and scratching returned to the dog, but no damage that i've found on the cat even if she is being jaw locked on her neck. Thus i can only assume Charlie's playing.??? It's still not appropriate behaviour.

I had the cat perched imperiously on the dining table this morning, and tried some distraction and reward techniques on charlie, who was coiled and quivering in anticpation. it sort of worked. better than i had hoped for too.

[poodlefan]

I would separate them.. .I sense this will end in tears. I think is is predatory rather than play behaviour and may escalate as the pup gets older. An old cat deserves better than to be stressed out by such incidents.. I know because I had one.

I honestly reckon you will only stop this behaviour with corrections... but an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure.

Edited March 16, 2007 by poodlefan

[Teebs]

Ditto, i have 2 dogs (Staffy and a Bull Terrier) and 2 cats.

the only time they are together, is when i am here. Otherwise the dogs are outside.

if the cats are outside cats, might be time to build a cat run to keep them in. If dogs are inside dogs when you are not home, might be time to either build a dog run, or lock them in one room, away for the cats

you might be able to train them to like each other, but better to get them apart NOW, then worry about that later

[Isabel964]

OK, see how things go...keeping an eye on them, separated if possible when you are not around.

If the cat is scratching with claws out, your dog could end up with needing vet attention or losing an eye.

I have three cats, one is an abyssinian. For some reason, my Westie chases him and grabs him aournd the neck and startes to devour him. Milo the cat ends up upside down gripped by the dog. Milo fights hard but keep all claws in. This goes on for about 5 - 10 minutes as they wrestle. They love it and I ahve found them sleeping together.

Milo ends up really wet but doesn't mind. Sometimes I do warn Jindi... "BE GENNNTTLLLEEE" .

Make sure its in fun

Let Charlie know he has to be ggeennttllle (You can teach him this in other ways)

Make sure your cat always has an escape. Mine has several cat stands and a huge cat-castle that is about 7 feet high.

If its not in fun... then if I was you I would call in people like AusDogs and get them to help. They are brilliant.

I'm so sorry that you have come back to this. I wish you all the best... I have a feeling it will work out just fine.

[RobbieRules]

What confuses me is that after being targeted by the dog, the cat continues to walk into the house morning and night ( her routine) seeminlgy forgetting that Charlie is around.

I just took Charlie for a run at the park this morning and when we got back she was lying on the cool kitchen floor. Molly the cat saunters in over to her food bowl, and i crouched down and held Charlie by the collar. Her body was so tense, and i darent let her go.

I'm trying to use the time out rule. i put her outside and she can see the other dogs and the cat, so i'mhoping she will feel left out and choose to behave.

We're trying distraction techniques, which did work yesterday afternoon when she was stalking and ready to pounce; and timeout. She's so eager to learn i just hope this will be enough for this seemingly innate behaviour.

Other people have just told me to get rid of the dog, and why do we have a staffy amongst such gentle dogs as Schnauzers, but the situation is a little more complicated than that. Daughter aged 19 paid her hard earned cash for her just after christmas and bought her into the home without consulting us. banking on the fact that she knows i am a dog lover. When Charlie arrived i was speechless with all the implications - 3 dogs=pack , wrong breed for working family;content middle aged schnauzers;walkies everyday; etc etc but 19yr olds maturity levels couldnt see the big picture. Said 19yr old has low self esteem ( 2 high achieving siblings),poor attitude to responsiblities etc and openly stated she wanted a staffy one day for a long time . My +1 and I have seen that this little dogga is a good thing for her, we cancelled her skiing holiday o/s this past 8 weeks because she needed to be responsible for the puppy's care; she's had to find money for vet bills and be committed to walking and training her etc. In parenting terms, this is great for our daughter. So, i'm just not prepared to give up on her just yet.

Fingers crossed i can find the skills to alter the behaviour ( I had a bossy boxer as a child that was my responsiblity so i learnt a lot of puppy schooling stuff) and not come to the decision that her breed traits will never be able to be altered *sigh*.

[RobbieRules]

thanks for the all the advice thus far. i will do a search for 'AusDogs', and that's the second advice i've had to teach the dog the word 'gentle'.

Also, another question. Do puppy teeth do lots of damage? Tilly the Schnauzer has little blood marks on her shoulders - i heard her getting very cranky with Charlie early this morning outside. But generally they play 24/7 even if they are a very mismatched pair. I can only assume it's nasty little sharp baby teeth and not a change in approach?

[Kavik]

Staffies can be full on! I would separate them when you are not around so that things do not get out of hand. Some Staffies have high prey drive, which is triggered by moving objects (in this case your cat!), and as you know Staffies are very powerful! Also if when playing with your other dogs things get too excited I would separate them until they calm down. You don't want the pup to annoy the older dogs to the point where they are being harrassed. This is where crates come in very handy

When I lived with my parents with my dogs, there were up to 4 cats in the household. Belle the older family dog was great with cats. Zoe my Kelpie cross who is now 7 (was pup to 4 with parents) was more interested in the cats, loved to chase them. One cat was her target more than the others, as it was skittish and would run, the others didn't run for her. But even though she would chase the cat, and sometimes try to get the cat to run by nudging the cat with her nose or paw, the second the cat stopped running, she would stop chasing. She might drop and watch the cat waiting for it to move. She NEVER grabbed the cat.

[Teebs]

My dogs have grabbed the cats, but they NEVER hurt them, and the cats usually start it

I still say that you need to make sure they are not together when someone isnt home with them.

Might be an idea to split the other dogs and the staffys as well, they are FULL ON dogs, they can, and do make the best dogs, but do require a lot of training (but they are a dog that loves to please their owner, so training is not hard!)

Maybe put the dog onlead when inside, i did that, and do that with my dogs when i get visitors, praise when not paying attention to the cat.

[Isabel964]

I don't know what state you are in.

I am in Melbourne and I know Ausdogs are too - Im pretty sure I used John.

if you are not in Melbourne, there will be similar people

Here is the website

http://www.ausdog.com.au/?gclid=CNHsnP2M-4oCFQXUhgodhklrFA

The fact that the cat is not terrified of Charlie indicates to me that she knows Charlie is playing.

I really think this situation will be ok if you get the right training.

Staffy's are full-on little buggers but so wonderful.

It worries me a bit how Charlie was so tense when the cat wat at the food bowl - I'd try to teach the cat not to go near the dogs food bowl. ut easier than that would be to feed the dogs, then take their bowls away. So the only time the dogs have food bowls is when it is their dinner time. At dog dinner time, make sure the cats are not there - lock the cats in the bedroom or something. A staffy and his food - keep the cats away. Easy to do and so worth it.

If you get Ausdogs in, they will know immediately if Charlie is a threat to the cats.

I understand your daughter and her self esteem and you wanting to keep the dog for her benefit. She can be really proud and have a best little buddy, but a staffy must be well trained. She should aim to be able to walk Charlie without a lead and have full control of him. He must come every time to she calls him - even if he is chasing a bird. This is not easy but this is waht Ausdogs can help with. They give a lifetime guarantee and they are AMAZING. But it takes practise and just 10 minutes a day can make all the difference. 6 month of consistent effort will end up so great as she will get a lifetime of pleasure and pride with Charlie.

Good luck to you, your daughter, and the furs

[RobbieRules]

Update on Charlie and Molly -

No more fights thus far, but plenty of near misses. we've taken to putting charlie outside when the cat comes in ( glass doors so she can see everything and everyone behaving inside), putting her on a leash whilst inside (SO not impressed, lol). The cat seems to have moved her territory from the back yard ( where dogs also live) to the front, so that's a start. Distraction is also working; she's coming ( sort of!) when she's called when she's stalking the cat in the garden and she gets lots of praise for that. However last night the cat looked ready to launch herself into the attack off the dining table as Charlie discovered she was there so she's really not helping things..

my next question is; how do you seperate a duelling catdog?? ( Catdog, because they literally become ONE) Ii've got too many cat scratches to want many more. We thought a spray bottle of vinegar?? might work. It's sitting on the bench waiting for a work out. It needs to be an indoor remedy for the most part.

i'm in Sydney unfortunately, the Ausdog people look good. Shame.

[dogdude]

Forget a spray bottle, its a bull breed. It will be useless on most occasions. Build a run for the dog.

Google K9Force. Steve Courtney is in Sydney and has a very good reputation.

[Teebs]

Keep the cat inside at ALL times, when the dog is inside, put the cat in another room and shut the door, unless dog is on lead.

You wont get any fights, and they might learn to live together

[persephone]

The cat was there first..it is HER house The staffy will need to be put/kept in a separate area as much as possible. Keep up the work...good for you, but the old cat is the one who should have freedom of the house...poor old thing.

I would also recommend K9Force.....

[Animal House]

Your daughter should be made responsible, its her dog.

Has she taken it to puppy school or dog training?

Does she feed, play and walk the dog?

Anyway, I would separate puppy and cat unless under your supervision.

Try crate training too, the dog can be in the crate and cat is safe to walk around.

When there is no (constant) supervision, separate them please. A staffys jaw is very powerful, and a cats neck in their mouth can cause damage, let alone cat scratches to the dog, and to yourself. (they can cause infection, so if you get a fair scratch, go to the docs.

Good Luck, but please make your daughter responsible, this is a lifetime of committment, so ask her if she is prepared to look after the dog for the next 12 or so years, and if the answer is No, then rehome the pup sooner rather than later.

[Teebs]

Ditto. I would not be seeing someone about this yet, it is a problem that can be worked out on your own. Just make sure the cat is inside at all times, so the dog can not get to it.

When inside, leash the dog, or move the cat into a spare room.

Maybe set a babygate up against one room, and put the cats stuff in there, the cat will get used to the dog and slowly come out.And the dog can not get to the cat

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Your daughter is really irresponsible to bring a new pet into the household without asking first. No way in the world would my mother have allowed it, no matter how cute a puppy was or how much it cost.

Your cat was there first, whenever a new pet comes along there has to be careful integration, even if they are the same species. Some dogs are gentle with cats but this situation is not a workable one in my opinion.

3 dogs in a pack will kill or severely injure a cat quite qucikly if play gets too rough or out of hand, they could even have lived together for years but you've added something different and unknown to the equation now. It has happened to other people I know - either keep the cat completely out of harm's way or remove the puppy.

[Teebs]

how are things going?

[shoemonster]

We have cats and dogs, the cats were there first

The cats have a room that is baby gated so they can get away from the dogs if they want to

We do not leave them together when we aren't home ever, even though the dogs are fine with the cats, it is not a risk I am willing to take

[Teebs]

(shoey, I just had kaos outside HOWLING! )