Vaccination Confusion

[Poodle wrangler]

Our new pet pup was vaccinated at 6 weeks and 12 weeks with Protech C3 ("Canine distemper, Adenovirus, Parvovirus Live vaccine").

Our vet suggested another C3 or C5 (if kennels required) in 1 months' time, then next vacc. due a year later. I don't plan to use kennels in the next year. Obedience club said "whatever the vet suggests" when I asked about C3, C4 etc.

Can anyone confirm whether or not this 3rd shot is necessary? I thought they only needed 2, then another in about a year .

I've also read that the Protech DURAMUNE C3 is approved to last at least 3 years: http://www.apvma.gov.au/gazette/gazette0506p12.shtml (see variation 4.). Is the plain "Protech C3" a different formulation, then?

Thanks for help: sooo confused, even after reading other threads!

Edited March 13, 2007 by Poodle wrangler

[Henrietta]

Our new pet pup was vaccinated at 6 weeks and 12 weeks with Protech C3 ("Canine distemper, Adenovirus, Parvovirus Live vaccine").

Our vet suggested another C3 or C5 (if kennels required) in 1 months' time, then next vacc. due a year later. I don't plan to use kennels in the next year. Obedience club said "whatever the vet suggests" when I asked about C3, C4 etc.

Can anyone confirm whether or not this 3rd shot is necessary? I thought they only needed 2, then another in about a year .

I've also read that the Protech DURAMUNE C3 is approved to last at least 3 years: http://www.apvma.gov.au/gazette/gazette0506p12.shtml (see variation 4.). Is the plain "Protech C3" a different formulation, then?

Thanks for help: sooo confused, even after reading other threads!

Hi Poodle Wrangler,

I had the opposite happen I thought it was the norm to give three rounds of puppy vaccinations before the yearly booster shots. However, my vet said that the third shot was not necessary. I had the C4 at 6 weeks and the normal one (C4 I am pretty sure)with Kennel Cough at 12 weeks.

Yes, I was a bit confused too, but the vet reassured me this was fine. The last experience I had with a pup was my parent's dog back in 2001 and I think she got all three.

I don't know why this is, maybe if you are in a certain location they recommend the three. Or maybe two is just the norm now. Sorry I'm not much help but I'm sure someone else will know for sure though.

Edited March 13, 2007 by Emmala

[Cavandra]

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-CHG-VACC-PROTOCOLS.HTM

Protech is only given twice. However, due to Aust being behind the times breeders continue to give the first dose at 6weeks which is wrong. The puppy has to be weaned compelety at least 2 weeks before the shot, as it has its mothers antibodies through feeding. Giving a shot under this time usually causes nil effect, cancels each other out and this is why so many babies get parvo even after having had a vaccination at 6 weeks.

Jean Dodds site above shows the correct format (we dont have Rabies). Basically once a dog has been vaccinated after the age of 12 months it will do it for life, but Vets dont want to believe it. Jean recommends a Titre test to check the levels in the dog every so many years, instead of just innundating it with unneccessary vaccine year in & year out.........causing all sorts of health problems that you & your Vet will NOT associate to the vaccine as the cause, even though it is.

Cheers

[morgan]

Protech is actually only needed once if given after 12 weeks.

My latest litter was vaccinated with Parvac (parvo only) at 10 weeks and my new vet said that a single Protech C3 four weeks later was all they needed. She was very happy to be giving them their first shot at 10 weeks - said she hates being asked to do 6 week old pups, and advises against it.

[Rebanne]

Fern was done by the breeder at 6 weeks, I did the parvac at 10 weeks and she got the Protech C3 at 14 weeks. She'll get her booster 12 months after the C3, then maybe at 5 or 6 years of age. I will consider doing the parvac every 3 years or so.

[Guest Tess32]

Just to bump this, is it ok to still give the 16 week shot (protech) to be extra careful or is it counter productive to give it twice? Does there have to be a four week gap after the parvac shot?

[InspectorRex]

Our Vets( both clinics here) give 1 Vaccination at around 7-8 weeks(Protec C3), then next one at 12-14 weeks then 3 years later for the Parvo/distemper/hepatitis vaccination.

For Kennel Cough they do the intra-nasal vaccine at 12-14 weeks then yearly thereafter.They are using the latest intra-nasal vaccine called Novashield- only have to squirt in one nostril and has less likely side effects than the Bronchoshiled intra-nasal KC vaccine.

[JulesP]

How it was explained to me was that with the old kennel cough injection you had to give that twice at 12 & 16 weeks but with the kennel cough up the nose you only need it at 12 weeks so don't need the shots at 16 weeks. But heck everyone is saying different stuff!!!

[Guest Tess32]

Oh I'm only giving C3 anyway.

[Joypod]

I'm confused. Gus had a Partech C4 at just over 6 weeks, then he came to me and he had a C5 at 11 weeks and is due for another C5 at 16 weeks. Does that sound right???

[I_LOVE_MY_TERRIERS]

Just to bump this, is it ok to still give the 16 week shot (protech) to be extra careful or is it counter productive to give it twice? Does there have to be a four week gap after the parvac shot?

It can be from 2 weeks, 3 weeks whatever you choose, as it is a dead vaccine mothers immunity can still fight it off, at the end of the day, when we send litters out to new homes, we are never sure that the vaccination kicks in.

Also studies show with the university of QLD, that the mothers immunity within the pup can over right a vaccination in the pups body up to the age of 16 weeks, this is why alot of vets recommend that the final puppy vaccination is done at 16 weeks of age.

I have read so many threads where people say it is not safe to give them vaccines at 6 weeks cause the litters have become sick with parvo symtoms etc, that is only because the litter has come in contact with it, either at the vet, visitors or it was in your yard.

It is still safe to give the vaccine at 6 weeks, 10/12 weeks then 16 weeks. If you are going to give a pup a C5, it must be followed up by another C5, you can't just give one, its the same with a complete C7, or a C2i. The research also says that a C4 is useless, cause it doesn't cover the complete KC components. C4's are given within a lot of pounds, where the dog still comes out with KC....A C5 is not recommended until the pup is at least 10 weeks.

Remember we are currently in a high risk parvo season and you have no idea if you are walking it into your homes/yards/whelping rooms! You are better to be careful than not to be!

[Jed]

'I_LOVE_MY_TERRIERS'

It can be from 2 weeks, 3 weeks whatever you choose, as it is a dead vaccine mothers immunity can still fight it off, at the end of the day, when we send litters out to new homes, we are never sure that the vaccination kicks in.

Also studies show with the university of QLD, that the mothers immunity within the pup can over right a vaccination in the pups body up to the age of 16 weeks, this is why alot of vets recommend that the final puppy vaccination is done at 16 weeks of age.

I have read so many threads where people say it is not safe to give them vaccines at 6 weeks cause the litters have become sick with parvo symtoms etc, that is only because the litter has come in contact with it, either at the vet, visitors or it was in your yard.

It is still safe to give the vaccine at 6 weeks, 10/12 weeks then 16 weeks. If you are going to give a pup a C5, it must be followed up by another C5, you can't just give one, its the same with a complete C7, or a C2i. The research also says that a C4 is useless, cause it doesn't cover the complete KC components. C4's are given within a lot of pounds, where the dog still comes out with KC....A C5 is not recommended until the pup is at least 10 weeks.

Remember we are currently in a high risk parvo season and you have no idea if you are walking it into your homes/yards/whelping rooms! You are better to be careful than not to be!

Do you have a site for this, or any reference, I would like to see it? Thanks.

This information, from Dr. Bob Rogers DVM in US, may help explain the immune response for anyone confused

To help the lay person understand this presentation, as well as the Veterinarian

who has been out of school for 30 years

like me, I have some definitions in the

library of my web

site www.critterfixer.com under Immunology 101.

For modified live vaccines like distemper and parvovirus we inject a few attenuated (weakened) viruses into the patient. These viruses are taken

up by the host DNA where they replicate. For every virus injected we get thousands. They are then presented to the immune system. This programs plasma cells to produce antibodies. It also

programs memory cells which persist for the life

of the patient.

These memory cells, B &T lymphocytes, can at a moments notice, respond with sufficient antibodies to prevent infection, even in the absence of an antibody titer. Cell mediated immunity is also stimulated, which can attack and

destroy any cells which become infected, before the virus can replicate.

If the patient had antibodies from the mother’s colostrum or from a previous vaccination, antibodies from colostrum or from the first vaccine would

prevent the viruses in the new vaccine from replicating. Cell mediated immunity would also prevent replication. The immune system would not be stimulated. Since antibody titers have been shown

to last for 7 to 15 years and memory

cells persist for life there is no benefit from repeat administration of MLV vaccines like distemper and parvovirus. Maternal antibodies or antibodies from a previous vaccination can block a rabies vaccine from having any effect in the same way.

Because modified live vaccines

replicate within the host’s cells they stimulate good cell mediated immunity. For a killed vaccine to stimulate cell mediated immunity( depending on the antigen), an adjuvant must be added to make the virus in the vaccine a sustained release type product. Adjuvant also stimulates the immune system by increasing inflammation at the site of

the vaccine.

The average person may believe that

this is why we give a series of vaccines initially, to boost the immunity. This is

not what happens at all. Remember we just said that antibodies from the first vaccine will block any subsequent vaccines form having an effect. There is no such thing as a booster for a modified live vaccine.

Puppies and kittens adsorb antibodies form their mothers milk, colostrum, the first day they nurse.

Different puppies may receive more antibodies depending on the mothers antibody levels and depending on how much they nurse.These maternal antibodies block a vaccine from having any effect. They antibody levels will decline at different rates in different puppies. They will decline to a low enough level that the vaccine virus can replicate and stimulate the immune system beginning at 6 weeks in some puppies and sometimes last

as late as 16 weeks in other puppies.

We give a series of vaccines every three to

four weeks so we can break through the maternal antibodies at the earliest possible time. It is not important how many vaccines

the patients get. What is important is

how old they are when they get the last vaccine. The older they are, the better an immunity they can get due to the lack of maternal antibodies interfering with the vaccine, and also due to age related immunity.

At 6 weeks of age only 37% of puppies and kittens will have low enough maternal antibody levels that the

vaccine can work .

At 8-9 weeks 79% of puppies will have low enough maternal antibody levels

that the vaccine can work.

At 12 weeks 95% will have low enough maternal antibody levels that the vaccine can work.

This study was done on Rottweillers which seem to be harder to seroconvert. This study does not take into effect cell mediated immunity

This study by Dr Ron Schultz demonstrates

that antibodies from a previous vaccine will

interfere with subsequent vaccines, blocking any stimulation of the immune system.

106 dogs, divided into three groups, and vaccinated one, two or three years previously were re-vaccinated. The antibody titer only

rose slightly in one dog. This proves that antibodies from a previous vaccine will block any subsequent vaccine from having an effect. The virus in the vaccine must replicate to stimulate an immune response. Antibodies from a previous vaccine block this replication. This is what Dr Schultz meant when he said

“the client is paying for something with no effect.” Annual administration of rabies, distemper and parvovirus vaccine does not elevate antibody titers or expand the number of memory cells. The immunity of the patient is not enhanced.

We give a series of three or four vaccines to

puppies initially. At six weeks we protect 37%.

The other puppies had too high of maternal

antibody levels for the vaccine to have any effect.

If we give another vaccine to all the puppies at 8 weeks we can now immunize 79%. Those puppies that were successfully immunized at 6 weeks of age will not get any stimulation out of this next vaccine because the antibodies they developed from the first vaccine will block the next vaccine from having any effect. We give another round of vaccines because we do not know which puppies were protected and it is cheaper to re-vaccinate than to test their titers. The vaccine at 12 weeks will protect some new puppies that were not previously protected, but those that were already protected will not be stimulated further because the antibodies from the previous vaccine will block any subsequent vaccine. This is the reason we give a series of vaccines. The immune system does not mature completely until 6 months of age. Any vaccine given after 6 months of age will provide a better immunity. That is why we give another vaccine at one year later. The one year interval was a completely arbitrary number chosen simply because that was a convenient time for the owner to return.

I personally give 1 x C3 at 8 - 9 weeks. by then maternal immunity should have faded, and that vaccination should protect the pup against parvo. However, in case maternal immunity was still present, I give another C3 at 12 - 14 weeks. Just to be sure.

then another C3 at 14 months or thereabouts.

I have been doing this for 10 years. I have never had a dog with parvo, hepatitis or any form of KC, and yes, they do go out and about, and some go to shows, but not weekly, and yes, we do have other dogs visiting. And yes, I believe that if the dogs are out and about, their immune systems also develop immunity.

My dogs are not vaccinated other than this. They do not visit boarding kennels, and I would prefer them to contract KC than to be vaccinated against it. there are more types of KC than the vaccines cover and KC is easily cured or c ontrolled, plus the mortality rate is about 1%. The C3 covers the diseases I think could be a problem, ie, parvo, hepatitis and distemper. There is NO way I would give any dog a C7 - seven live viruses is too much for any immune system.

the 3 year vaccine is the 1 year vaccine in different packing. But giving it 3 yearly works well.

[Miranda]

I basically agree with Jed. I actually give three puppy shots, C3 only, one as close to 8 weeks as possible, one at 12/14 weeks and another at 18 weeks. They get a booster at 16 months and that's it.

[I_LOVE_MY_TERRIERS]

This is what I got emailed to me from the University of QLD, a vet/lecturer and her husband is in the top 10 vets in Australia.

Hi Nicole

it is safe to vaccinate even at 2 weeks of age for Parvo.

If there is a risk of exposure, or if you don't know whether the mother was vaccinated, you can use the following regime:

At 2 to 3 weeks of age – Killed Parvovirus vaccine

• At 4 to 5 weeks of age – Killed Parvovirus vaccine

• At 6 to 7 weeks of age – Killed Parvovirus vaccine PLUS live attenuated Canine Distemper Virus and

Adenovirus vaccine.

• At 9 to 10 weeks of age – Killed Parvovirus vaccine

• At 12 to 13 weeks of age – 3 in 1 (Parvo, Distemper, Adenovirus)

• At 16 to 18 weeks of age repeat 3 in 1 vaccine

It is important that they get their last one at 16-18 weeks of age, because maternal antibody can block the effect of the vaccines prior to this.

There would be no problem if you vaccinated your pups now with Killed Parvo vaccine, and then again in 2 weeks time. Remember it takes a couple of weeks for the vaccine to work - so you would still need to isolate them for this time.

Hope this helps. Will send a picture of Booster as soon as I have my camera working again.

cheers

Mel (PS loved the photos - they are cute!)