boxagirl Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 I've been doing some work with Bondi to build her enthusiasm, but she still lags.. I know I need to get the focus, but I'm having trouble keeping focus for more than afew steps. I'm fazing out food, using variable reinforcement, and have just introduced "jackpot" (lots of treats/games/praise) when she does something perfect with enthusiasm. How do I go about stopping lagging and getting more focus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Try to use the best motivator for your dog. Do not change the highest reward. Check out, past threads regarding focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 (edited) As per what Lablover said. Also, keep the exercise very short (just a few steps) and release & reward on that (ie when she is not lagging - ie release/reward only when she is in correct heel position). Build up so that she becomes a bit more enthusiastic about being in the "right position". I presume you are trying to "heel" and "focus" simultaneously? Try breaking down the training a little and reward for heeling (short exercise - frequent releases and repetitions). Work "focus" separately. When things are a bit more reliable/happening, join the two together. There is a dog at training (Golden Retriever). Sweet thing she is, but quite shy (not frightened) and tends to lag. I have had her owner working on very short heeling exercises (minimum 3 steps, maximum 5 steps. Doing corners/turns separately again) and whilst there's still aways to go, her dog is vastly improved over the 3 sessions I have seen her. I have also suggested she refrain (for the time being) from discouraging her from heeling forward of the correct position (if the dog will). It is far easier to bring a dog back than to bring it forward so we can deal with that problem (should it become one) later. We have tried all manner of motivators with this dog including exciting play with the owner; toys; different food treats. The dog enjoys the food, but is so gentle about it all, won't seek it out strongly. Not very interested in toys at all and prefers quiet cuddles from her owner rather than behaviour that would otherwise "gee" her up. Getting there albeit slowly - more than the owner expected possible but now recognises progress and is continually working towards this end but at the same time prepared to be patient. Edited March 11, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxagirl Posted March 11, 2007 Author Share Posted March 11, 2007 Thanks LL and Erny. I will try working focus and heeling seperately. At the moment I am starting with her in heel position, and as soon as I say "Heel" and step forward, I reward her and break off (as advised by my obedience instructor) to try and make her start off enthusiastically and not lag from the start. That Golden retriever sounds like Bondi regarding food and being shy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Erny, Shy but not frightened? Just to clarify, for want of something to do........timid, nervous, low drive.? Just to help, possibly, are the owners loud or being mummy like, soft and the dog playing to such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Shy but not frightened? Just to clarify, for want of something to do........timid, nervous, low drive.? Just to help, possibly, are the owners loud or being mummy like, soft and the dog playing to such? Hhhhmmm .... description, but without giving you the wrong idea. I admit I NEARLY said "timid" in my previous post, but something stopped me - I don't think that description would be entirely accurate. Attempts to "gee" her up by being excited results in her withdrawing back even more (but then, I'm very "out there" as you know, LL :rolleyes: .... so probably wasn't sure how to take me). But the dog's body language does not suggest "fear". Ears are not flicked back but are often in "relaxed" mode, sometimes flicking forward because there might be SOME interest in what you're doing at the time, but not enough to bring about the "boldness" she seems to require to motivate her more eagerly forward. Maybe "quiet submissiveness" would be a better description ......... which may suggest why she doesn't feel comfortable in coming as forward as we might wish? The handler is softly spoken but firm. There is no "cooching" - the owner knows (now) not to murmur sweet nothings unless the dog is "at heel". I would definately suggest "low drive" ..... but not the lowest I've ever seen in my life time. The dog has definately progressed in the last few weeks. She is probably about 6 inches behind heel position (at the most) now. A few weeks ago she was more like two feet behind. But we are still keeping exercises relatively short, with more numerous repetitions rather than the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Thanks Erny. It may help others who read the posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Thanks Erny.It may help others who read the posts? Possibly ..... but feel free to offer "tips" if you think I might be missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Had another thought ...... Might try getting the owner to "jog trot" rather than walk. Perhaps that will encourage her dog to come forward more eagerly. Guess I will find out next week, assuming this pair are at training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Ummmmmmmm. Erny!!! My dogs tend to forge a little as they know, the fun, is in ahead of them (retrieving). All the same obedience is obedience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Thanks LL. Hhhmmm, that's sort of given me an idea. Won't put it up here though, until I've had a chance to put it into practice to check its viability. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Erny, If you are thinking, about what I do????? Like have a pile of known/seen rewards, as in retrieving articles in my case, while I work on basic obedience, yes......................they are released to retrieve for excellent responses. Distance between the area of obedience and the pile, is interesting also. Are are skipping down the same path? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 If the dog likes to run after you try the 'jog trot/, my dogs love when I try to run away out of heel position and then I mark them (I click and treat) when they catch me and get back into positon. It really puts a bounce back in their step, but they need to understand what heel is first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Hang about!!!! Erny........placing the reward in front of the dog, working within the dogs critical distance. Sorry my method is too many, chained sequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Are are skipping down the same path? Well sort of - and what you said certainly sparked my thoughts. Except this dog is not inclined to chase/run after anything, let alone retrieve. Sorry to "tease" ..... I really need to check something else out (ie the quality of "informal" - ie straight in front - recall this dog gives to its owner). Something I know I've seen but have focussed so much on improving the lagging, I can't now remember. If the informal recall is stronger than the "heel" activity, I'm thinking of modifying it to achieve what we're after. I can only let you know how we go after next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangerineDream Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 A method that I've used quite effectively with dogs who lag is to get the handler to 'scuttle' - be shorter than usual with quicker short steps and a cheerful and bouncy voice - could be worth trying. lagging dogs seem to see this as less of a 'threat' possibly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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