How Many Repetitions To Teach A Required Behaviour?

[NaturallyWild]

I think I just phrased myself badly in the last post - I can see how you would read it like that

I meant I would not consider a behaviour fully trained til the dog was weaned off treats and was able to perform the behaviour on cue in most situations without need for reward

Make more sense now - the performing without the need for a reward relates to the 2000 reps thing i was mentioning.

[squeak]

Dogs that learn in 1-5 reps They actually exist do they If they do, my girl is definitely a "dud" (But we still love her for who she is.)

I don't think I'm that bad a trainer, but it has taken me 3-6 months for our girl to start to get the concept of "sit". And it took many more months to teach her shake. We adopted her from the RSPCA when she was 12 mths old and I honestly doubt that she had been taught much in her first year of life. She seemed to understand the concept of bed well and truly before sit, so perhaps that was all that she was taught. It is interesting though that the later "tricks" that I have taught her - bow, speak (she's not at all vocal) and "high five" she seemed to pick up more quickly. And I have also noticed in the last few weeks that she is finally starting to associate clicker/verbal marker with treats and is becoming more eager and focussed.... 9 months after we adopted her!!!!!!!!!!

[OzPetRescuer]

squeak - if it makes you feel any better - it takes at least 6 weeks for a new rescue dogs real personality to come through and then another 6 weeks for them to really bond - in most cases, especially if theyve had no real leadership before

perhaps you do need to work on getting you marker and treat tighter - perhaps use more high value treats - etc - but in essence you are only now starting to work with the real dog - from here on in take it as a new thing - go slow and most of all enjoy yourself and your dog

[squeak]

squeak - if it makes you feel any better - it takes at least 6 weeks for a new rescue dogs real personality to come through and then another 6 weeks for them to really bond - in most cases, especially if theyve had no real leadership before

perhaps you do need to work on getting you marker and treat tighter - perhaps use more high value treats - etc - but in essence you are only now starting to work with the real dog - from here on in take it as a new thing - go slow and most of all enjoy yourself and your dog

Thanks for that - it does make me feel better.

For "new" stuff or very distracting environments (ie., dog club) I am using the highest value treats I can. For Stormy these are chicken sausages cut into tiny pieces. Strange that sometimes she seems to prefer liver treats, which, for her aren't usually high value. One of my biggest challenges up to this point was that she didn't appear to be particularly food motivated. One of her biggest things is that she likes to meet new people, but I haven't quite worked out how to harness this into her training.

I am interested in what you mean by getting my "marker and treat tighter" - I'm afraid that I don't understand and I am definitely open to suggestions.

It's been interesting to watch her change since we got her. She had absolutely no idea of manners in the house (she probably had never been inside) and was jumping onto the dining table, lounge... you get the idea. She has "mellowed" from that dog into a very well behaved house dog, once we showed her what our "house rules" were (ie: no dogs on furniture). She also used to jump and mouth at us (a lot), particularly my husband when we were throwing toys for her. Once again, through patience and persistence, she finally came to understand that jumping wasn't acceptable. And then in the last week or two, she suddenly seems to be beginning to understand "training" - starting to link commands/hand signals to the required action and beginning to understand that she has to perform the command to be rewarded. I am concerned that I will take to long to phase out treats and that she will become "dependant" on them. I'm not in a hurry, but I'm not sure how to tell when is the right time.

I'm okay with going slow with her - though I will push her boundaries just a bit occasionally to see what she is capable of. And yes, above all I try to enjoy her and any time I spend training with her. I see her as my "L plate" dog - since even though I grew up with dogs, she is the first one that I've been responsible for training.

Sorry to ramble so long - it is a subject I find interesting and enjoy hearing other people's ideas.

Edited March 16, 2007 by squeak

[OzPetRescuer]

Thanks for that - it does make me feel better.

For "new" stuff or very distracting environments (ie., dog club) I am using the highest value treats I can. For Stormy these are chicken sausages cut into tiny pieces. Strange that sometimes she seems to prefer liver treats, which, for her aren't usually high value. One of my biggest challenges up to this point was that she didn't appear to be particularly food motivated. One of her biggest things is that she likes to meet new people, but I haven't quite worked out how to harness this into her training.

perhaps not feeding the night before training might help - or using a toy? My dog loves a game of tug or fetch as much, and often more than, food

Kabana?

Liverwurst?

Cheese?

Blue cheese?

Liverwurst and blue cheese are messy - but whats a bit of mess between friends?

I am interested in what you mean by getting my "marker and treat tighter" - I'm afraid that I don't understand and I am definitely open to suggestions.

I mean the time between the click and the treat. It needs to be as instant as possible. Perhaps go and charge the clicker again? practice without the dog. get someone to hold something - a ball, an erase, anything heavy enough to drop without breaking stuff - have them drop it at intervals - your goal is to click as soon as they open their hand to drop it - youll find you get more and more accurate with practice. this will help with capturing behaviour.

And then in the last week or two, she suddenly seems to be beginning to understand "training" - starting to link commands/hand signals to the required action and beginning to understand that she has to perform the command to be rewarded. I am concerned that I will take to long to phase out treats and that she will become "dependant" on them. I'm not in a hurry, but I'm not sure how to tell when is the right time.

Is she understanding more or are you getting better as a trainer?

There is no such thing as treat dependency for dogs - its our dependency that is the problem - once you have a behaviour as you want it - then start to wean - but someone will need to teach you how to wean effectively and this isnt the thread for that Im sure

You sound like you're doing just fine - congrats!