How Many Repetitions To Teach A Required Behaviour?

[Lablover]

A group of friends and I, were recently discussing canine training. Required repetition figures were thrown about, in teaching a single command.

How many repetitions do you feel are required before a dog learns a single wanted behaviour?

As my labs are used solely for retriever trials, nowadays, where the drop is not required, I thought I would conduct my own experiment, on my two youngsters. Interesting result.

[Nekhbet]

until the dog gets it. How long is a piece of string really.

it depends on so many things - but mostly on the effectiveness of the handler. Look at some pet dogs. They have been told to 'sit' 50,000 times and the poor bugger STILL doesnt get it. Poor training on the owners behalf. That and is the dog motivated enough to cement it in? I taught my Mal behaviours after 5-10 repetitions. My Mastiff took 20-30 times for the same thing.

Its all subjective, not something you can quantify. But if you spent weeks trying to get the dog to 'get it' and it still looked at you like you were speaking japanese then you need to re-evaluate your training methods.

[MonElite]

Are you talking as the trainer is a good trainer, the circumstance is right, the motivator is right, the dog with no problems etc?

From my observation a dobermann can pick up the meaning of the word in about 5 repetitions.

[.................]

I wouldn't like to put a figure on it but I would say that I expect the first few behaviours taught to take significantly more repetitions to become reliable than subsequent behaviours. I've always made much better progress after cementing the first few behaviours. I think this teaches the dog how to learn and therefore new behaviours are offered/complied with far more readily.

So, to teach the first few single wanted behaviours, I'd say until it's reliable. To teach subsequent single wanted behaviours, I'd still say until it's reliable but it won't take as long.

I'd also think how natural the behaviour is would have a fair impact as well.

So, teaching dogs trained for retrieving to drop? I'll say 5 repetitions?

[Lablover]

Damm Jeff, with one of my labradors, you got it in one estimate, including distance. He learns very quickly. Highly motivated with excellent focus.

The other took thrice as long. But he has a little poor history. But improving.

Edited March 10, 2007 by Lablover

[MonElite]

I wasnt far off either

[Lablover]

You were right also. Sorry Mrs. M.

It is so blissful. Dogs and husband fast asleep. Gone are the big Saturday nights out and about. LOL.

[TangerineDream]

Depends on the dog as well as the trainer.

You can teach Tango virtually anything in 3 repetitions.

[Lablover]

TD, three? Gundogs are a blessing.

Quite impressed with GSPs actually.

[.................]

Depends on the dog as well as the trainer.

You can teach Tango virtually anything in 3 repetitions.

You're right there.. I've got a little dog you can teach most things in a few repetitions, only problem being it generally takes me twice that to figure it out.

[MonElite]

I had a kelpie at the club today in the class. I showed it a new thing/word. It did it the third time, I thought - no way, it cant know after 2 reps.

Yes it did.....

LL - yeah - blissfull here too. 3 boys watching Moto GP, two dogs alseep near me.

Yeah - What happened to the dancing at the night club EVERY weekend????

[Lablover]

I had a kelpie at the club today in the class. I showed it a new thing/word. It did it the third time, I thought - no way, it cant know after 2 reps.

Yes it did.....

LL - yeah - blissfull here too. 3 boys watching Moto GP, two dogs alseep near me.

Yeah - What happened to the dancing at the night club EVERY weekend????

Did you ask for the behaviour, after a time delay, to check response?

[MonElite]

I had done about 7 reps at the time. That is me and the dog.

Gave the dog back to the owner and did some focus building as the dog was not looking at the owners face.

later during class I had asked the class to to the learned excercise the dog definitelly knew the word.

Extremly smart dog, the owner needs a lot of work tho

[TangerineDream]

After having 5 Dobes (Tegan being sooooooo bright that she failed the WAC because she wasn't interested in the threatening drunk...cos she read him so well that she knew that he wasn't really a threat, so she refused to respond ), Tango out-thinks the lot - and Dobes aren't stupid.....

I was quite amazed at his speed of learning - he also internalises concepts rather quickly (and then applies them laterally ) - and that really freaked me out.....

[MonElite]

Yeah TD - Rex failed for the same reason, twice or 3 times I cant remember. Looked at the agressor and rolled his eyes at him as to say - you have to do better than that mate

[Erny]

In my experience, for a dog who has not yet "learnt to learn" - given that dogs learn by patterns/sequences, generally 3 reps is minimum for a pattern to emerge. Of course, this also depends on the task that is being taught and how complex (or not) it is and how motivated the dog is. Another factor I must take into account is that when the dogs come to me they have often learnt the wrong things through inconsistency in training by their owners. Sometimes more reps are required for the dog to understand what is expected EVERY time.

Being reliable in the command taught is a different matter and requires further training/proofing.

[Vickie]

Interesting question. I think it depends on the complexity of the behaviour, the method and how well it is used & the dog.

I also think some behaviours seem more natural to individuals, even with in the same breed. eg, Shine uses her paws a lot, so getting her to do a behaviour with her paws is much quicker than Zeus who doesn't use his paws a lot...but Zeus is very sensitive to my body language, so getting to move around me in a certain way is easier than Shine who has no sense of personal space. Likewise Trim is a very natural retriever, so getting her to pick up something & put it somewhere is much easier than Noah who I had to teach to chase a ball. I hope that makes sense.

I am always doing these experiments with my 4 BC's. They all learn slightly differently. It is interesting for me that my least biddable dog is generally the one that learns the behaviour the quickest, LOL...then I have to actually get him to want to do it. He is usually around 3-4 repetitions.

My goal atm is to be smart enough to work out the method & motivation for each dog well enough so that they are learning the same thing with the same amount of repetitions.

[MrsD]

I had a kelpie at the club today in the class. I showed it a new thing/word. It did it the third time, I thought - no way, it cant know after 2 reps.

Yes it did.....

That doesnt surprise me at all myszka, my kelpie Jarrah can learn most commands in 2-3 repetitions easily. I was exactly the same as you when I first got him & started teaching him things, I thought "No way!!" but he's proved it time & time again, he is seriously the fastest learner I have ever had. And yes, his retention is A1 (I dont clicker train him btw).

Jonty is fairly average, 5-10 reps for most commands.

[Lablover]

Well.......we have many smart dogs and obviously very good trainers on DOL.

[Sayreovi]

Well.......we have many smart dogs and obviously very good trainers on DOL.

LOL well not here!!

Nova is fine and learns very quickly even through my bad training, average about 5 repititions.

Darcy however is a different story, he is smart but its my bad training that screws him up, he is extremely eager and throws himself into it, sometimes faster then my response to C/T at the correct time. I am not good with my body language either and Darcy watches me like a hawk LOL it is hard too change an old habit as when Nova was younger he wouldnt care where i was or what i was doing now that has changed but i havent yet :rolleyes:

So smart dogs but a bad trainer here.