Yearly Booster

[chy]

Hi, my two pomeranians are due for their yearly booster and since we've only just moved over to Brisbane from overseas, I'm not sure what the difference is between C2 and C3...something like that. Just that we were never given a choice back in Hong Kong, all we knew was to take them in on time for their booster, that was that.

Also, what is the difference between private vets and greencross vets?

Thanks in advance!

[Jed]

Greencross Vets ARE private vets. They just own several private clinics and employ veterinary surgeons, as opposed to a vet owning his own practice. I understand they have some very good vets working at the various clinics. I think they may have 4 or 5 clinics in Brisbane.

No C2 here.

Choice is C3 - parvo. hepatitis. parainfluenza (kennel cough)

C4 - parvo. hepatitis . 2 types of kennel cough.

IMHO, no dog should ever have above a C4.

The Australian Veterinary Association released a new vaccination protocol about 3 years ago at its annual conference.

They now recommend that dogs received 3 yearly boosters, not annual ones.

Not all vets are up with this.

As there is quite a lot of evidence that over-vaccinating causes a lot of the damage to the immune system, leading to allergies and some forms of cancer, many people only use the puppy regime which is 2 vaccinations for a puppy, 1 at 14 months, and no more vaccinations ever.

Most of the diseases we vaccinate for are puppy diseases, and there is a lot of evidence that following the course of 3 vaccinations 2xpuppy, 1x14 months, the dogs have sufficient immunity to the diseases to not need follow up vaccinations.

You may discuss this with your vet, but if he is of the "vaccinate annually" school, he will simply tell you that you should be vaccinating annually.

If you are interested, I can post some research by Dr. Jean Dodds, the world wide expert on vaccinating dogs.

Edited March 8, 2007 by Jed

[cavNrott]

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Edited June 7, 2009 by cavNrott

[chy]

Thank you for the clear explaination. I now know what the C3,4,5's mean and from what the info CavNrott provided, my dogs have been getting C5 which also includes Leptospirosis which is not required for Australia. By the way Jed, why should no dogs ever to get C4? Just curious as it just seems to cover more than C3 and less than C5.

Jed: thanks a lot for the info regarding greencross vets.

[cavNrott]

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Edited June 7, 2009 by cavNrott

[sandgrubber]

Thank you for the clear explaination. I now know what the C3,4,5's mean and from what the info CavNrott provided, my dogs have been getting C5 which also includes Leptospirosis which is not required for Australia. By the way Jed, why should no dogs ever to get C4? Just curious as it just seems to cover more than C3 and less than C5.

Jed: thanks a lot for the info regarding greencross vets.

I don't think Lepto is included in a C5. It is included in C7 (maybe C6, not sure) but Lepto is only found in the far northern parts of Australia I believe.

My dogs are now on a 3yr booster regime and as persuasive as the vets can be about giving a C5, mine will get a C3 in the future.

My vet -- who advises me in reading the certificates that come into the boarding kennel -- tells me that the Australian system has no checks on consistency . . . ie, all C5's don't include the same vaccines. My mind blurred beyond this . . . but bottom line is that it's complicated.

But -- yes -- there is now a C3 vaccination that is ok'd for once every third year. My veterinary advice is this is the preferred option . . . and use the adjunct vaccine for kennel cough, etc. if and when you think KC is a problem, or if you need to use a kennel that requires KC vaccination. Of course, if you use the 3 yr stuff and you don't have vet documents that indicate the vaccination is good for three years, boarding kennels will not accept it. (We all have to cover our backsides :rolleyes: ).

[Dogsrules]

I read some of what you guys said and some questions just pop in my mind.

QUOTE(Jed @ 8th Mar 2007 - 11:33 PM)

IMHO, no dog should ever have above a C4. ---> Why ? Most dogs is vacccinated with C5 nowadays, especially the one from the pounds.

QUOTE(sandgrubber@ 9th Mar 2007 - 10.48 AM)

Of course, if you use the 3 yr stuff and you don't have vet documents that indicate the vaccination is good for three years, boarding kennels will not accept it ---> Is there new type of vaccin that covers 3 years ? I thought the vaccin is the same type of the vaccin before the 3 years gap introduce, it's just the dog doesn't get it every year now.

QUOTE(cavNrott@ 9th Mar 2007 - 2.19 AM)

My dogs are now on a 3yr booster regime and as persuasive as the vets can be about giving a C5, mine will get a C3 in the future. ---> Are there reasons why you chose c3 ?

Any reply would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[chy]

Talk about confusing...

It's great that we're discussing it though! And if the C3 is adequate for home kept pets, as I know for sure I won't need to send them to boarding kennels at any time, perhaps this is all they need. The vet that I called did suggest C3 but failed to mention that there were others and the difference between each.

I also consulted my Australian vet from Hong Kong via email to seek his advice and he says that many diseases such as distemper is uncommon in Oz, but to get C5 for all round protection...kinda like not answering at all huh!

[Jed]

Thanks Cavnrott, for the correction. Must have had a senior moment.

C7 also immunises against leptospriosis, which is typically a problem in hot wet conditions (ie, tropical) and also corona virus.

This is from the Gov website, giving approval for the use of C3 in Aust and and vaccination protocol

4.VARIATIONS

Product Name: Protech Duramune C3 Canine Distemper, Adenovirus & Parvovirus Live Vaccine

Applicant Name: Fort Dodge Australia Pty Limited

Summary of Use: The changes included the instruction leaflet to indicate that the vaccine are efficacious and protective in six week of age and older dogs for up to thirty-nine months following a second vaccination.

Date of Variation: 4 April 2005

Label Approval No: 51487/0205

As far as I am aware, it is the same vaccine, but vets are telling people it is a "new 3 year one" - and in fact, some vets who insisted on annual vaccinations, when pushed, said there was "a new 3 year one" but it costs more

Why ? Most dogs is vacccinated with C5 nowadays, especially the one from the pounds.

There is a growing body of evidence that immunising dogs with an ever increasing number of live vaccines together does a great deal of damage to the immune system. There is documented evidence everywhere. There is also evidence that numerous (middle aged and older) dogs developed aggressive lymphomas following vaccinations. In fact, if you do a search, some of the owners posted on this forum.

Dogs do need protection from diseases which will harm them - but I think we need to be selective about the vaccines we use, so that they are not doing harm.

Most forms of kennel cough are easily treated in healthy dogs, and indeed most will repair without any treatment at all. The choice is whether to vaccinate against something which is easily cured - or risk the damage the vaccine may do. If you board you dog, you may need to use C5.

And dog club secretaries are going to have to do some research about vaccines, so they are not refusing to let properly vaccinated dogs attend club events.

An obedience secretary of a club near Rockhampton would not allow a properly vaccinated puppy to attend classes, because she would not accept the vaccination certificate which was issued - it was a letter, on the vet's letterhead (giving the vet's registration number), stating date vac. given, what type, name and type and age of dog, and the sticker from the ampule containing the vaccine. Apparently it wasn't acceptable because it wasnt on a card!!

I ask you.

For the past 10 years, my dogs have received 3 vaccinations - with C3 if possible, and if not, with C4. I have never had any develop any of the diseases they were vaccinated against, and on titre testing a 6 year old bitch, last vaccinated at 14 months, her antibodies for parvo were "off the scale", so she certainly didn't need any more immunisations.

There is some research that suggests that annual vaccinations may cancel out the antibodies the dog already has, leaving it in an unprotected state. I often wonder if this is why the occasional dog, although vaccinated, contracts and dies of parvo, which is, after all a puppy disease, and adult dogs should pick up some natural immunity by being out amongst other dogs.

It's every dog owner's personal choice, but we all need to research what we are actually putting into our beloved pets.

[cavNrott]

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Edited June 7, 2009 by cavNrott

[curlyking]

Dogsrules: Jed has covered the situation far better than I could have. The explanation given was why I will only have a C3 done on my dogs.

Mee too!

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Thank you for the clear explaination. I now know what the C3,4,5's mean and from what the info CavNrott provided, my dogs have been getting C5 which also includes Leptospirosis which is not required for Australia. By the way Jed, why should no dogs ever to get C4? Just curious as it just seems to cover more than C3 and less than C5.

Jed: thanks a lot for the info regarding greencross vets.

There are several strains of the leptospirosis virus in Australia, prevalent in the wet, humid tropics.

If you live in such an area, or you intend to visit with your dog/s, IMO it's definitely worth getting the Lepto vax. Beats a dead dog anyway.

Ours are C5 ATM, but will get the C6 when they are due...or the Lepto on its own before we leave Canberra, if the Wet continues much longer in the Top End.

[Rappie]

As far as I am aware, it is the same vaccine, but vets are telling people it is a "new 3 year one" - and in fact, some vets who insisted on annual vaccinations, when pushed, said there was "a new 3 year one" but it costs more

The only "same" part is that they have transferred the Duramune name to apply only to the 3 year vaccine, and the remainder are simply "Protech".

It is a new vaccine, in the process of doing the trials to register it for 3 year duration of immunity (DOI), Fort Dodge redeveloped the vaccine to be (and I quote the rep) "Stronger". I do have the technical information somewhere at work, I will try to find it so I can let you know exactly which claims are made.

Some protocols recommend using the core vaccines we already have, but reducing the frequency to every 3 years. Most of these vaccinations are only registered to provide protection for 12 months.

Some vaccines (as with Duramune) have been changed, and then registered for 3 year DOI.

The Duramune vaccine does cost more - about 3 times more as a typical C3.

[Jed]

Thanks, Rappie. So, it is actually a different vaccine.

And, I should still be able to get the annual one?

This is now a few years old, but relevant

NEW!!! VACCINATION PROTOCOL

by Dr. Jean Dodd

- ----------------------------------------------------------

VACCINATION NEWSFLASH [CIMDA support] RE: J DODDS VACCINE PROTOCOL

I would like to make you aware that all 27 veterinary schools in

North America are in the process of changing their protocols for

vaccinating dogs and cats. Some of this information will present an ethical

& economic challenge to Vets, and there will be skeptics. Some

organizations have come up with a political compromise suggesting

vaccinations every 3 years to appease those who fear loss of income vs.

those concerned about potential side effects. Politics, traditions, or the

doctors

economic well-being should not be a factor in a medical decision.

NEW PRINCIPLES OF IMMUNOLOGY

Dogs and cats immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a modified

live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it produces

immunity, which is good for the life of the pet (I.e.: canine distemper,

parvo,feline distemper). If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the

antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the

second vaccine and there is little or no effect. The titer is not "boosted"

nor are more memory cells induced. Not only are annual boosters for

parvo and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to potential risks

of allergic reactions and immune-mediated haemolytic anemia. There is

no scientific documentation to back up label claims for annual

administration of MLV vaccines. Puppies receive antibodies through their

mothers milk. This natural protection can last 8 - 14 weeks. Puppies &

kittens

should NOT be vaccinated at LESS than 8 weeks. Maternal immunity will

neutralize the vaccine and little protection (0-38%) will be produced.

Vaccination at 6 weeks will, however, DELAY the timing of the first highly

effective vaccine. Vaccinations given 2 weeks apart SUPPRESS rather

than stimulate the immune system. A series of vaccinations is given

starting at 8 weeks and given 3-4 weeks apart up to 16 weeks of age. Another

vaccination given sometime after 6 months of age (usually at l year 4 MO)

will provide LIFETIME IMMUNITY.

[ravensmyst00]

Hi, my two pomeranians are due for their yearly booster and since we've only just moved over to Brisbane from overseas, I'm not sure what the difference is between C2 and C3...something like that. Just that we were never given a choice back in Hong Kong, all we knew was to take them in on time for their booster, that was that.

Also, what is the difference between private vets and greencross vets?

Thanks in advance!

Best advice to give is to discuss all vaccination regimines with a qualified Vet.

[t-time]

I'm curious as to how much the titre testing is??? :rolleyes:

[Rain]

Tha local vets in my area, as i have rung around, say that vacc at 8wks, 12wks, 16wks. Then every 12 months. Is this what most people do? As i am unsure about over vaccinating. Also in the caboolture shire area you have to have these shots before your pup/dog can attend obedience training.

A breeder i know vaccinates at 8wks, 12wks than yearly. Do other breeders recommend this? Any opinions would be great to hear!

[morgan]

I'm curious as to how much the titre testing is??? :rolleyes:

My vet charges $100 for titre testing, but as the samples have to be sent to Perth, where you live alters the cost of getting it there.

He agrees with me that annual boosters are absolutely unnecessary and even with ordinary vaccinations are not needed more than every three years. Of course he still sends out yearly reminders to all his customers - he says that if they want it done, who is he to argue?

[Poodle wrangler]

A breeder told me that she doesn't vaccinate until 8 weeks pups still have some immunity from milk from their mother up to this time. She also thought with later weaning the dam taught pups good manners: They got a good telling off if they used their teeth inappropriately (ouch!).

[Jed]

A breeder i know vaccinates at 8wks, 12wks than yearly. Do other breeders recommend this? Any opinions would be great to hear!

Some do.

I vac the ones I am keeping at 8 and 12 weeks, then around 12 months, and then never again. I have been doing this for the past 10 years, and none of them have ever caught anything, although they do spend time in public. Over the past few years, I have dropped the vac. at 12 months too.

You really need to do some research, and speak to a couple of vets.

Titre testing cost me about the same as a vac, but it does depend on your vet, and where you live.