Zelahi Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 We are looking at training Charlie in agility and flyball.. does your dog have to be purebred to enter into these competition? How old should training start? What should he be trained in first? or should he be doing both at the same time? So i have lots of questions.. i really don't know much about this area at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 (edited) We are looking at training Charlie in agility and flyball.. does your dog have to be purebred to enter into these competition? Nope - your dog can be any breed. But you do have to be registered with the canine body - if your dog is a xbreed, they will be registered as an 'associate'. How old should training start? What type of training do you mean? I wouldn't start either Agility or Flyball until after 12mths simply due to the growth.... I want my dogs to finish growing before I do any 'high impact' sports with them. You can start agility earlier (6mths) but it is only foundation stuff with no jumping :D. I wouldn't start serious agility/flyball until 18mths. If you meant obedience - you can start right away. What should he be trained in first? It is up to you - I don't think it matters - If I were to do flyball now, agility would help, but if I had done flyball first, that would also help agility. I think that some basic obedience is a must though :p. Makes both sports a lot easier. or should he be doing both at the same time? It is up to you - I do agility, tricks and obedience (a bit of herding too) at the same time and have no problems. I would add more to the list if I had time. CTD does herding, flyball, obedience, tricks etc all at once with her dogs and has no problems. Your dog will understand the different contexts. How much time do you have *g*! Edited March 1, 2007 by leopuppy04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 (edited) Erin: We are looking at training Charlie in agility and flyball.. does your dog have to be purebred to enter into these competition? No, but he (and you) does need to be registered with the appropriate governing body. How old should training start? Obedience - sooner the better! I would not train a small breed dog over jumps, weavers or raised contacts in agility and flyball under about 14 months of age and older for a larger breed. What should he be trained in first? Which ever interests you the most or that you want to focus on. What dogs learn first they learn best. Personally I think agility dogs take to flyball easier than flyball dogs to agility but no doubt others would beg to differ or should he be doing both at the same time? Big ask on a dog physically and mentally. Probably even a bigger ask on a handler. I'd say do one then the other, not both at once. I'd have to say that few handlers who get "into" agility or flyball would do both sports. I agree about obedience. Focus and control form the basis of all dog sports. Start with obedience now and then make your decision about which other dog sports to do when your dog is old enough. You can keep doing obedience along side another sport easily. Edited March 1, 2007 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi_dog Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Start off by joining your local obedience club first. From there, you can really network (ie. find out about different clubs etc as a lot of people there will probably be members of different agility/flyball/tracking etc clubs). That's how I started to get into different dog sports, anyway. I found most members at my obedience club more than happy to help me find out about different dog sports and who to contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 To do flyball your dog can be any breed and does not have to be registered except if you want to compete or do AFA sanctioned demos then you just register your dog with the flyball people and get a number. I have done bits of everything with my dog and doesn't make any difference. Moses knows that when there is agility equipment out he does agility, he knows when flyball equipment is out he does flyball, he knows when I stand upright and walk with a purpose we are doing obedience. I have also done a little bit of tracking with Josh. With Tia may just do herding, as she is not the sharpest tool in the shed. You just go with what your dog likes. I am putting Moses in a Rally O comp at Croydon on Sunday, have never even done a Rally O class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippi Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 With Tia may just do herding, as she is not the sharpest tool in the shed. What are you saying - I don't believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I have to work 5 times as much as most other people to produce the same result. I cannot talk to the breeder as he said to me he is not a dog trainer and the dog is a product of your training. (doesn't really help that answer). But herding seems to come to her really quickly so why fight an up hill battle. Just go with what the dog is good at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I have to work 5 times as much as most other people to produce the same result. I cannot talk to the breeder as he said to me he is not a dog trainer and the dog is a product of your training. (doesn't really help that answer). But herding seems to come to her really quickly so why fight an up hill battle. Just go with what the dog is good at. Huh? Its called a challenge. Nova is one of the smartest dogs i know and he has taken me 3 YEARS to get up too a level worthy of competiting in Flyball. You are just too used to eager to please, quick to learn dogs like Moses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Okay flame suit is now on, bring it on. Err Moses is not the only dog I have trained. I have also trained Josh in flyball, and obedience. A German Shepherd, Sheba and a golden Retreiver, Hymie. If Nova is so smart how come it took 3 years to teach flyball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 LOL CTD - is the flame suit comfy??? I tend to agree with TO though - I think it gives you a nice feeling of self satisfaction when you get there with a 'not so easy' dog. Not that I can really talk - people have told me that Leo is easy to train.... true, he is, but he also isn't the sharpest tool in the shed . Kinta is a nice (sometimes) change! But then, you have 2 other dogs to think of and do you want to sacrifice your training with them just so you can do something with Tia. Well - as we always say - if the dog doesn't enjoy it, why do it? If Tia enjoys it, I am sure you will keep going ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 (edited) Don't confuse intelligence and trainability. A lot of factors need to be considered when you look at how "easy" to train a dog is. One of them is the handler. Different handlers do better with dogs of different temperaments and learning styles. Personally I'm always interested in listening to and learning from handlers who've taken "non-traditional" obedience breeds to the top. To take an obedience bred Golden Retriever to UD is not mean feat. However would you have liked to learn from someone who did the same with not one but two Parson Jack Russell Terriers? Those "hard to train" dogs teach a handler more humility and more training skills than any other. I have to shake my head sometimes when I see dogs doing OK in obedience despite their handlers. A more challenging dog makes you think about things like footwork and body language because you HAVE to get it right for the dog to succeed. That said, an easy to train dog is a joy to have. Edited March 1, 2007 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 (edited) There are also easy and difficult dogs within a breed. Its not possible to make a blanket statement about any breed necessarily. I know I haven't had it easy with my girl (yep she is a BC) but when it comes to doing things she has no where near the drive or energy of a "normal" BC. I have seen Golden Retrievers and Labs with far more drive and enthusiasm then she has. Some is due to training (you never quite know what to encourage and discourage when its your first) and some is just her. We have got our CDX and are now training in UD and compete competently but nothing flashy in agility/jumping. We also dabble in freestyle. To take this back to the topic I got into dog sports through my original obedience club. Freestyle I got involved with after reading about it on the web. Best of luck with whatever sports you choose to get involved with. (They are Pets First and Trial/Sports/Competition Dogs Second!!!) Edited March 1, 2007 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 There are also easy and difficult dogs within a breed. Its not possible to make a blanket statement about any breed necessarily. I know I haven't had it easy with my girl (yep she is a BC) but when it comes to doing things she has no where near the drive or energy of a "normal" BC. I have seen Golden Retrievers and Labs with far more drive and enthusiasm then she has. Some is due to training (you never quite know what to encourage and discourage when its your first) and some is just her. (The are Pets First and trial dogs second!!!) Ness - again your dog sounds just like Leo. They have the ability to do the work, yet Leo is not quite so driven or active as most Aussies/borders. It is a great change when you see him with a bit of zing in his training (thank Dog for Kinta!)... since I got her, Leo has been MUCH more enthusiastic about training ;). Any dog that you train should be a pleasure - whether it was easy to get there or not.... afterall, we all do it for the love of the sport don't we. At the end of the day, who cares how many titles are at the end of their name.... all that matters is that they have been a great pet and friend! PF - while I agree with you, I still think that no matter who gets up to UD or up to the top in any sport, deserves a medal! No matter what breed - it takes a lot of time, dedication and training on their part. Like Ness said, there have been and will be many a border to struggle to get there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I dont think breed has too much to do with the scheme of things, other than some breeds are capable of higher scores due to there physical stature and build. Small dogs are up against it with their leg speed and vision height, some breeds have not got the ability to sit squarely due to their build, the list goes on. I think that if the breed has the ability physically, you just need to find something that gets them interested with something that stimulates a drive mode. Dogs of the same breed can have vastly different interests. I have trained a trial winning Bull Terrier, but I certainly dont consider myself as any guru on BT training. What works for one won't necessarily work for another. I do conceed that training a Staffordshire Bull Terrier a much more pleasant experience though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 (edited) We do obedience, flyball, freestyle, have started bits of agilty Both my dogs learn very differently, so I have to use different approaches, and it takes very different amounts of time to get them to certain levels of understanding and reliability Dogdude, thats cos they give such good kisses!! To get the dog registered with the canine council as associate register, they need to be desexed, but you also wouldn't have to register them until you are about ready to compete Edited March 2, 2007 by shoemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi_dog Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Going a bit OT, but anyways... Indi is a smart girl, and if she enjoys what she's doing, will pick it up in a snap. But... if she thinks the exercise you are trying to teach her just plain sucks, or I'm not making it exciting enough then it will take her FOREVER before she decides she wants to do it, making her look pretty dim to anyone watching I guess some dogs could be a bit manipulative when it comes to getting their owners to do what THEY want to do, I know Indi's got that part figured out ;) But hey, if she's having fun then I'm having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sne Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Going a bit OT, but anyways...Indi is a smart girl, and if she enjoys what she's doing, will pick it up in a snap. But... if she thinks the exercise you are trying to teach her just plain sucks, or I'm not making it exciting enough then it will take her FOREVER before she decides she wants to do it, making her look pretty dim to anyone watching I guess some dogs could be a bit manipulative when it comes to getting their owners to do what THEY want to do, I know Indi's got that part figured out ;) But hey, if she's having fun then I'm having fun. I have the same kind of thing with Ranger - tricks he loves because they're often changing, and are new and exciting when he realises what to do. However with basic obedience, the mundane 'stand' and such commands REALLY bore him, so I try to take him out of class for a few seconds to do a few fun tricks before going back to do the boring stuff I've tried to up my rewards for the boring stuff to make it a bit more exciting. I'm looking to get my boy into agility, although I'd love him to do flyball (he just doesn't have the ball/retrieve motivation for it), and am just looking around at what is close, and what is a good club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Okay flame suit is now on, bring it on. Err Moses is not the only dog I have trained. I have also trained Josh in flyball, and obedience. A German Shepherd, Sheba and a golden Retreiver, Hymie. If Nova is so smart how come it took 3 years to teach flyball? Uhh LOL you had shepherds, retrievers and now a collie, they arent exactly the dumbest dogs going around. Intelligence doesnt equal trainability. Flame suit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 (edited) Okay flame suit is now on, bring it on. Err Moses is not the only dog I have trained. I have also trained Josh in flyball, and obedience. A German Shepherd, Sheba and a golden Retreiver, Hymie. If Nova is so smart how come it took 3 years to teach flyball? If you're going to compare every new dog to the smartest (read easiest to train) dog you ever had, then of course you will be disappointed every time. There are breed differences in every dog one trains, and then there are personality and drive differences within particular breeds. Probably the thing you battle most with is overworking a puppy who is shutting down. That's why she appears 'dumb'. I'm not sure why you need to have every new dog do every single exercise and trick in the book, as early as possible? Mel. Edited March 2, 2007 by Staff'n'Toller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tollers Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I think CTD is saying is that some dogs are more suited to doing certain sports than others. Tia has been introduced to all sorts of things at an early age to see where her preferences lay and it seems as though herding is going to be her thing. IMO I think that's a pretty good way to go, encourage your dogs natural abilities. My 2 Tollers are so different. Todd loves his flyball and would (hopefully, will) do well at agility and Lilly shows promise in tracking and possibly obedience ( if she stays awake). To get back on topic, think about what your dog might enjoy and what it's best at, join a club and they'll guide you from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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