Malamute

[Peachie]

I will say first and foremost that this dog is loved probably more than any other dog i know, and the owner has tried everything and anything to fix this problem.

Yesterday i clipped back, very short, a 10 yr old malamute. I have been washing this guy for 6 years now and he has always had very bad skin. He has always had health issues, a number of surgeries on various joints (hips, knees) - he was a pet shop puppy... and very badly B Y Bred it seems

He has a lot of social issues as well, and is very difficult to bath, but we manage. He goes nuts at certain pitches on tv commercials, telephones ringing, radio etc, howling and barking. Does the same when he sees other dogs - but his mum adores him nontheless. He was bought for her kids by her ex husband, of course now the kids are grown and it is their mum who has been his main carer for many years now (since i have known him). Of course, this means that he probably didnt get his proper training as a pup, and now his mum has adjusted her lifestyle for him - that isnt the issue i want advice on, but just some background.

Anyway, her vet suggested she clip him short for his skin problems, and said they would have to sedate him for this. She doesnt like taking him to the vet as he stresses out too much, and i told her i would be happy to give it a go. Vet gave him a sedative to give him to calm him down so he would stay still enough to clip him. I called her half an hour before so she could give him the pill.

Well when i got there, there was no howling at the door when i knocked, which usually happens. Owner opened the door and there was poor old Husky (that's his name, not breed) standin there looking really dopey. I put my gear down (had planned to clip him on her back deck to avoid outside distractions - usually wash him in her driveway in the trailer) and gave him a hello cuddle. Well, he went down like a bag of spuds. Just collapsed - i nearly had a heart attack. As i was nearest his head, and we were in her small hallway, i got down to see if he was ok, and i couldnt feel him breathing. I called his name and shook him to rouse him - thank god i heard him snoring. His mum is in tears by now of course, i would have been if i didnt know how sensitive she was. "call the vet' was on the tip of my tongue until i saw him breathing. Well i managed to rouse him and i had to physically lift him to his feet - no mean feat - he has to be 60 kilos, and has very long nails which he wont let me touch when i wash him, and the hallway is floorboards.

We managed to get him out to the back deck, me holding him under his tummy and chest, holding his weight and walkin doubled over (his mum has a bad hip so i wouldnt let her take his weight, just lead him)

Well we got him settled, laying down and i got to work - first thing i did was his nails, as short as i could possibly get them without quicking them. At least he can walk easier now. That coat was like felt - i went through two number nine blades - both are now trashed and need sharpening.

I called her in the evening to see how he was, and she said he had woken up for a tiny bit of dinner, and was sleeping it off.

The problem i would like advice on is his skin. As i said, it has always been bad, yeasty and flaky. He has had antibiotics several times, special washes - you name it. His mum is planning to get the vet over and check it out, and probably another course of antibiotics.

I am going to wash him on Tuesday - i didnt dare yesterday after his clip, as he was far too dopey and i couldnt lift him down and up front stairs and in and out of the trailer - never mind he may have passed out in the tub and no way would i have been able to get him out.

I am planning to use malaseb, and talk to her about his food - i think he is on a good quality kibble, but i will check that out.

I will try and describe the skin condition. In some patches, the skin is comin off in large flakes - almost like sunburn peeling. There is also this yellowy orange kind of grainy stuff on the skin. I would think it is a yeasty type of thing. There isnt a very bad smell, tho he was a bit stinky - but i hadnt hydrobathed him for a few months. We also realised that he has a flea problem, which i will addres on tuesday with a good flea bath. There wasnt a lot of fleas really, but a hell of a lot of flea dirt. The skin was a bit red in some areas, where the skin was peely, but not overly - not really rashy.

His skin is also very oily. My hands felt really greasy when i was finished.

I will say that i do not normally agree with clipping these sorts of coats, but in Husky's case, i really feel that letting the air and sun onto it will help it out of sight. She is aware of sunburn issues, and only walks him at night or very early in the morning anwyay (to avoid other dogs and the heat of the day) Also at his age, skin cancer is not an issue really - he is 10 - very surpising given his health history. He is not an outside dog and spends most of his time snoozing in the house or on the deck.

My plan is, to give him a good flea wash on tuesday, followed by a malaseb wash (two separate baths). I will ask about his food, and suggest he is on a good quality kibble if he isnt already.

Is there anything else i can suggest? As i said, she is going to get the vet in to look at him now you can really see his skin.

This dog is a real sweetheart, even tho he is totally psychotic. I do love him, he was one of my first clients, and his mum adores him to death.

Again, i am after advice on his skin, not his socal issues - at his age i dont think there is much training that can be done, and he is a lot quieter in his old age than he used to be.

His mum is planning to give him a sponge wash over the weekend using Pyroex (sp) - similar to malaseb.

Any suggestions most welcome - There is nothing to flame this lady about, i know she has done everything she can to fix this skin and spent lord knows how much on vet consultations over the years. I'd just like to make this old guys last years/months as comfy as possible.

Thanks

[tashnchief]

Gee what an experience,I hope he recovers from his sedative.

I have a dog (Japanese Chin) and she has a similar problem with her skin. I have spent a lot of money at Vets each year where they give her a quartisone injection, an antihistamine and tell me to bath her is Malaseb. And to tell you the truth it has never done one bit of good.

The injections will give her some relief for about 2 weeks and then we start the cycle all over again.

She has a flea allergy. Her skin flakes off and she gets that agitated that she will rub the hair off her back and behind until she is completely bald.

I have chosen over the last six months to take a more natural approach.

I use non pasturised Apple Cider Vinegar. I put a teaspoon in her drinking water and I put it directly onto her skin on the irrated areas.

Whatever is in this stuff it gives her enough relief to stop scratching and give herself time to heal. The following day I will apply "Rudducks' Cow Udder Cream. Sounds rediculous but it works, Cow udder cream has a very large content of Zinc the mineral we all need in our bodies to heal. You can use cow udder cream on yourself too. It's great for scratches and sores. It is very good for senstive skins.

You will also need to be regular with a flea treatment such as advantix or frontline to keep the problem at bay or it will be a never ending cycle.

Honestly the natural remedies have healed the problem where as the trip to the vets just kept it a bay. You must only use a non pasturised AppleCyder Vinegar that you get from a health food store and any good produce place should carry cow udder cream. If you put Apple Cyder Vinegar into the search at the bottom of the page it should bring up a fantastic thread on it and also links to website of info on all its uses.

I hope this helps, it would be nice to see him live out his days comfortably.

Tash

[dwynwen]

Has his thyroid function been tested? Can be an issue with mals.. and can show in skin problems.

ETA - the 'normal' t4 ranges specified by the lab is not necessarily the normal for a specific breed.

Edited February 23, 2007 by dwynwen

[KitKat]

A lot of snow breeds i have dealt with have problems with red meat...which comes out as major skin irritations. And many have the same problem with chicken believe it or not.

I have put a number of mals and husky's onto Proplan Sensitive with Salmon and have had great results. But i would seriously try the dog on a fish based diet - eg Proplan or EaglePack do a fish one as well.

[carousel266]

Has the owner tried food specifically for sensitive skin? Probably, but thought it might be worth a try. Also, has she considered taking him to a animal skin specialist, they might have more luck in recognising the problem. If he's having a reaction to something he's eating, maybe try an elimination diet, or switching brands of food.

I had a cat who we thought had a skin condition, but it just turned out he had a major flea and ear mite problem, once we got those two under control, the skin cleared up almost by itself.

Good luck!

[Peachie]

Thanks for the very constructive replies. I will print this out and give it to the owner on tuesday, so she can suggest these to her vet. This vet has a very good rep in the area, and i am sure he will suggest what is best for Husky. I will check out what she is feeding him, and go from there.

I like the natural approach, i think his mum would be very open to this, i think she uses natural therapies for her own hip problems

Thanks again, all replies have been very helpful and gives me hope in helping this lovely old boy

[westielover]

One of my westies gets yeasty skin in summer - being a breed that is not accustomed to humidity - it seems to happen only in summer. He also has naturally oily skin. For the oily skin - I wash him with 'sapoderm' soap every 2nd wash - it's a human grade anti bacterial soap which works wonders on my dog. Also - when his gets the yeasty skin (lumps & flakes) my vet prescribes 2 lots of antiobiotics - Nizoral & Rilexine - one targets the bacterial infection and the other targets the yeast infection. Clears it up every time - it occurs almost every summer. Before I switched to this vet - the previous vet used to only prescribe one type of antibiotic - I can't remember what's it called but it's a big pink tablet and it's commonly prescribed by vets - this antiobiotic never cleared the problem. Has Husky's vet ever done a skin scraping and analysed it under a microscope to see if it could be a yeast & bacterial infection?

If Husky doesn't have the annual heartworm injection - it might be worthwhile switching him over to Sentinel Spectrum + Advantix. Sentinel Spectrum stops fleas from breeding (tablet once a month) and Advantix is a spot on treatment which kills fleas living on the dog. The 2 combined seem to work really well as my dogs never seem to get fleas.

Edited February 24, 2007 by westielover

[KOE]

I bet that was scarey as I would have had a fit.

Try washing him over with a tee tree shampoo.

hope he is feeling better.

[poocow]

westielover - the pink tablet is clavulox

peachie - the malaseb wash or a tea tree shampoo would be best. Hopefully his vet will have some answers now that he can get a proper look at his skin and hopefully get some scrapings done.

[Peachie]

Again, thanks for the replies. All very helpful.

Poocow, the stuff she has is virtually the same as malaseb - cant remember the name of it but it is something like pyroex (that's not right but it is similar). I was told that one was the newer product, with the older product to be discontinued, but as it was still wanted by clients, both are still available.

Westie, i will ask about the skin scraping - i am sure she has had one at some point or another - this problem has been going on since i have known him, and i have been washing him for over 6 years now.

I will write myself a list of questions for his mum about his flea treatments, antibiotics he has been on in the past, and another list to speak to her vet about.

Thanks again guys. I phoned her this morning and Husky is still quite sleepy, i figure that since he is pretty inactive, it is taking a while to get out of his system - she did phone the vet and that is what they said as well.

Cheers all. I will let you know how he is on tuesday.

[Ari]

Why was his hair like felt? Are you not getting the undercoat out when you wash him? If the undercoat is coming out he should be getting air to his skin so clipping him wont make any difference.

Please be very careful grooming sedated dogs. I do not do them. If they need sedating they go to the vet groomer for 2 main reasons.

1. Like you experienced they can collapse/get over dosed. Imagine if he had stopped breathing! All of a sudden you are the groomer that had a dog die even if it was nothing you did. Better off with a vet on stand by.

2. Often the dogs lose all bite inhibition. You get comfy because the dog is sedated and BAM it nails you harder than it would have unsedated with you on your toes. You need your fingers to make your living.

Anyway....just be careful! No shame in turning away dogs and that one had a hell of a lot of warning bells.

[Peachie]

Ari

Yes, he did have a fair bit of that soft undercoat. I used to wash him monthly for his owner, but the last couple of years i have only done him ever couple of months. I know his mum does brush him, however i think due to the oily skin she has trouble getting all that coat out. He also cant handle the blow dryer, so i cant get as much out as i would be able to otherwise. Trust me, i would love to be able to really blow the rest of the coat out, tho i do get a lot out with brushing.

I have never clipped a sedated dog before, and i certainly wont be doing it again. I am hoping that if we can clear up this skin with husky, he wont have to be clipped again - and as he is over 10 yrs old now, he may not even be around next summer. I wont be as my business is for sale and i am moving to the country, so if he is with us still by next summer, and she wants him clipped again, it will have to be at the vet. After that experience, i think i would probably strongly advise that anyway.

As i said, it was a terrifying experience. I did it because i know this dog and how much he stresses out when not at home. There is no way he would have stood still for me to clip him, and the vet was the one who suggested he should be sedated for clipping. He is not a biter, sometimes a grabber when having his nails done, but he knows me pretty well and i would be surprised if he had a go. Of course i realise a dog under sedation may do something unusual to his normal nature.

Thanks for the warning - and no, i will not be clipping any more sedated dogs.

[Clyde]

Again, thanks for the replies. All very helpful.

Poocow, the stuff she has is virtually the same as malaseb - cant remember the name of it but it is something like pyroex (that's not right but it is similar). I was told that one was the newer product, with the older product to be discontinued, but as it was still wanted by clients, both are still available.

If there is an infection present then use the Pyohex, however if it is simply yeasty skin then use the Malaseb. Pyohex has a higher level of Chlorhexedine for cleansing any pus/sores. Malaseb is not being discontinued. Make sure you leave the shampoo on for ten minutes as it doesnt start acting until about 7 minutes. In cases like this it needs to be done three times a week. In between these baths I'd use Aloveen Leave in Conditioner (same company) and for other baths I'd use the Aloveen Shampoo. I would personally avoid any tea tree products - they over dry the skin/coat and can cause severe itchiness. Tea tree is actually toxic to dogs in higher doses. Seriously if you stick to those Dermcare products rather than chopping and changing you will notice a vast improvement within a couple of weeks if done correctly. Good luck!

[Ari]

Ari

Yes, he did have a fair bit of that soft undercoat. I used to wash him monthly for his owner, but the last couple of years i have only done him ever couple of months. I know his mum does brush him, however i think due to the oily skin she has trouble getting all that coat out. He also cant handle the blow dryer, so i cant get as much out as i would be able to otherwise. Trust me, i would love to be able to really blow the rest of the coat out, tho i do get a lot out with brushing.

I'm sure that's probably making his skin worse but nothing you can do about it if they are going to go longer and longer between grooms. He must have been given one hell of a sedative if he's still groggy the next day! Glad you both came out of it okay.

Are you still going to groom once you move or is the town too small?

[Anissa]

Very often promblems like this are caused by the wrong food. Especially cerals are causing a lot of allergies on dogs!!! My first advice would be to completely remove any sort of cereal food (wheat, corn...) from his food.

I would recommend raw food (meet and vegtables).

Maybe even an exclusion diet would be a good idea.

Another thing could be a homoeopathic treatment of the dog! Problems with the skin are usually easily fixed combining these two things.

Unfortunately I don´t know if there are any homoeopaths in Sydney but you can check it here:

Australian Homoeopathic Association

[Peachie]

Ari

Yes, he did have a fair bit of that soft undercoat. I used to wash him monthly for his owner, but the last couple of years i have only done him ever couple of months. I know his mum does brush him, however i think due to the oily skin she has trouble getting all that coat out. He also cant handle the blow dryer, so i cant get as much out as i would be able to otherwise. Trust me, i would love to be able to really blow the rest of the coat out, tho i do get a lot out with brushing.

I'm sure that's probably making his skin worse but nothing you can do about it if they are going to go longer and longer between grooms. He must have been given one hell of a sedative if he's still groggy the next day! Glad you both came out of it okay.

Are you still going to groom once you move or is the town too small?

Yep, well i can only go as often as the client wants and or can afford. I hope he is back to his normal self tomorrow. I think he was slow to recover from it due to a slow metabolism. That's what the vet told my client anyway.

Yes, hopefully will be able to have another mobile, or perhaps buy a salon when i get there - it is the real reason Terrorbull is leaving Orange ... cos I am coming back.... hehehe

Ta again everybody who has added advice. I feel very hopefull now for Husky and his skin.

Cheers

[Peachie]

Update for those interested in Husky

I saw him today - pulled up and heard him yelling at me to hurry up and come get him for his bath - back to his old self.

He does look a little strange with his big boofy head and tail and hardly any coat, but honestly, his skin looks amazingly improved. His mum gave him a medicated sponge off over the weekend - using the pyroex (damn, can never remember the name of that stuff) and a lot of the redness is gone, the gooey yeasty stuff has almost gone, and it looks just brilliant. I was able to give him a really good flea wash, and his mum is going to do weekly medicated washes till it is clear, then i suggested aloveen. I will be going monthly from now on, to hydrobath him.

He certainly looked very happy, almost like a little kid running around in the nude...

Have told his mum if she wants me to clip him next year, then we will have to organise to do it at the vet - dont know if they will allow it, or even if husky will still be with us, but she can only ask. She really wants me to do it rather than somebody he doesnt know. I can understand that, and would probably feel the same way.

I did say tho, that if we get on top of this skin, and regular hydrobaths again (i will slowly try and reintroduce the blow dryer) he may not even need to be clipped again.

i honestly couldnt believe the difference in his skin. I am sure letting the air and a bit of sun (only a bit of course) really has helped.

thanks again all for your thoughts and advice.

Oh, i also printed out this whole topic and gave it to her for reading.

[Ari]

Great news!! Fantastic news about the monthly grooms. It'll make it so much easier to get the undercoat out especially without being able to use the drier much.

[SilverHaze]

Do some research into "Coat Funk" which is a skin/coat condition that affects malamutes. Sounds like this could possibly be his problem.

[Shihzoo]

Apparently Tea Trea shampoo is very drying - better off with oatmeal / aloe vera shampoos - or so my vet told me on the weekend!!! My 2 1/2 yr old shih tzu has hot spots at the moment (either caused by flea bites or the yeast infection in his ear). It's a bit hard to narrow down right now but both have pretty much cleared and fleas are gone so all should get better now :-) I've only had him a month or so!