What My Vet Said About Fleas

[Clyde]

I went to buy permoxin a while ago to treat my girls with it, (as a spray) and the guy at pet barn said it was dangerous to use on smaller breeds so i didn't get it.

Is this true?

No, it's bull. Go back and tell the twat I said so :rolleyes:

It is dangerous for cats though. Highly toxic but still fine to use on dogs if you have cats, it binds instantly to the skin.

[doggiedo]

I sometimes wonder about hyrobaths, you dog goes into it after dogs you don't know, and some have flea problems.

I would think that those fleas that are washed off may have the chance to hop on to my dog.

Just a thought, next I may say my dog needs to wear rubber thongs in the public hyrobath.

[blogblog]

you can buy concentrated confidor or a product called spectrum 200, its the same chemical as what is in advantage but twice as strong so you only need half as much(eg it has 200gm/l)

you can mix it up and spray the yard with it and it will obliterate fleas pretty good

costs about $160-190 for a litre and should last you quite a few years... saves you a lot of $ compared to the petshop type treatments which are the same thing(well advantage, you can get the other chemicals for advantix and advocate too if you want to make that up)

The composition of confidor & spectrum 200 is quite different to advantage. Firstly Advantage contains the active ingredient mixed with benzyl alcohol to make a liquid solution. Confidor contains active ingredient (twice the concentration) plus glycerine and water. Advantage is a liquid applied to the dogs skin, absorbed by the skin & transported all over the dog via the skin's oil. Confidor is not a liquid version. it is a solid. To be more precise it is a solid in suspension. That is the active ingredient is absorbed into a very small solid particles in a solution of glycerine and water.

The difference is important to note, as it's very unlikely the Confidor will be absorbed into the skin, rather it will just sit on the skin, and not be transported around the skin via skin oils. Your use as a spray for spraying the yard and maybe bedding or kennels should be fine. I don't think it would work as a pour-on for dogs in place of Advantage. It may be possible to use it as a dog flea spray though.

If you or anyone else has used Confidor or Spectrum 200 on your dogs directly as a spray-on or a pour-on I'd be interested to hear of the results.

Edited March 23, 2009 by blogblog

[Twinkletoes]

Recently I attended an information night given by the company that put out Fronline. It was extremely interesting, and a lot was learned.

I always thought that the products like Frontline (which I have never used), was supposed to kill fleas and keep them off the animal. This is not the case. The product is designed to kill the adult flea on contact with the animal usually within 24 hours after application ( speaking particularly about the pippette application here - needs time to circulate over the dogs body).

It does NOT prevent fleas from coming on to the dog. Therefore as others have said, if you have fleas in the environment, then your dog will get more fleas on it. Depending on how bad your infestation is, will depend on how many fleas will keep coming back onto the dog. It is necessary to treat the environment.

Here is the kicker though!

Flea larvae can stay buried in the ground a considerable way down, so when you spray with pesticide, unless the product gets down to where the lavae is it will not affect it. Also, if in the case of a house that has been empty for some time, but sprayed to treat for fleas, as soon as you move in the flea larvae detect the movement and heat etc and will hatch out giving you a new infestation. Flea larvae can remain dormant for up to six months before hatching out if they so choose. From the time a flea hatches, it is usually on its host within 1 second - feeding within a minute - breeding within 8 hours - laying eggs within 24 hours - the female lays 50 eggs a day. The eggs are like polished rice, and as the animal walks around they are falling off into the environment and starting the process all over again.

If you have neighbours with animals, wildlife coming into or near your yard, you will continually get flea eggs being dropped in your environment. If a flea lives on your dog for say 48hours, it cannot survive on another host - it is reliant on that one animal to feed otherwise it dies.

Frontline (and I am not here to sell it to anyone - I get no benefit from that. This is just info), has a product in it that kills the adult flea, and another product that sterilises the eggs.

Basically, the theory is that you have to keep up the good fight all year round otherwise you end up with such a big infestation it is near impossible to get on top of it.

Of all the products that I am aware of, Advantix is the one to be careful of if you have a cat because it can kill your cat very quickly.

I know that the information night I attended was to specifically promote the Revolution and Frontline products but the information was extremely interesting.

Good luck to everyone - Keep up the good fight! We can't let the little buggers get the better of us!

Makes you wonder if we shouldn't be doing as was done years ago, and just use a dip of some description, and use the same stuff to spray the environment

as well.

Cheers

[bret]

There is a heap of information on these forums in regards to fleas, but from my experience, i have and will until it stops working only ever use advantage.

maiya my border is 3 now. when i first got her we lived in a house with a great back yard and apparently a bazzilllion fleas. we would wash her get off like 30 or so fleas left in the tub, then try this malwash stuff, sprayed the backyard the whole 9 yards. we may have even gone too far because we used so many things. In my honest opinion and that is just that, my opinion, the first thing you need to do is get rid of them on your dog. When i switched to Advantage, without word of a lie, within 20 minutes of putting it on her, there were no fleas hanging around, and you used to be able to just turn her on her belly and it would be swarming with black movement. after a week or so there were no eggs to be found.

By using too many pesticides and flea killers especially on the lawn, which i am affraid you are never going to get rid of, its just too hard, you run the risk of hurting the puppy.

I have also found on other forums especially ones in america, that fleas have actually become resistance to some brands of products, that is why they don't work any more. I have never had luck with sentinal, capstar, malwash or another one i can't remember the name of,

but i have used both advantage and advantix and recommend them from what i have seen.

wow! such a long post for a 1 line answer

try them, they are more expensive, but like i said i found them to work.

bret

[murraydebbie]

I am use advocate on saxon for flees and have never had a problem.

Soon i will be moving to a high tick area and i have the preventic collar but the only problem i have is that when i am at work saxon will be in the yard, and i worry that if it rains and he does love running around in it, i will have to constantly change them.

Does anyone know if you can use advocate and proban together. Atleast then i know he is being protected when i give him the tablets.

We have just moved to Kilcoy and was worried about ticks in this area. I was told by the vet today, that with Proban there is no guarantee with the product and that using a tick collar would work more effectively. I also use Advocate, but he said that as another precaution, try using the tick collar with Frontline or similar. Food for thought!!!!

[vk2mpj]

My Rottie has FAD, at the moment we are washing him twice weekly in Maleseb (until it all settles), and treating him with Permoxin and Advantage. We applied Advantage but less than a week later we picked a number of fleas off him. Firstly I gave him a Capstar, then started to question the effectivness of a topical treatment when we are using such an intensive washing regime, especially since it relies on skin oils...

So this led me to look at alternatives, Sentinel Spectrum seemed the logical choice, but a vet recommended Revolution. What do fellow dolers think?

Once his FAD has settled, and we are back into a normal wash routine, we will switch back to Advantage / Advantix.

I did treat his environment today... But it is now raining, hope this doesn't undo my work.....

[Leithy]

I've just had my first flea invasion, it's driving the dogs and myself nuts. WE CANT SLEEP due to them biting and being pains in the arses and i cant do anything till tomorrow morning.... I'll be very very busy.

Advocate sounds the way to go? As long as it kills the damn fleas I don't care how expensive it is.

It's hard with a long haired dog and a black short haired pup.

It's kind of like a never ending war isn't it?

[FranVT]

I agree, I don't give a rats about the cost if it works. We've found Frontline to be totally useless on our bull terrier. We find the best thing to do is bath him relatively regularly, use Capstar for acute use and flea comb him regularly. These days I am only finding 1 or 2 unless he goes down to the beach house where they hang out in the sand. Yuk. I am getting a black/tan Finnish Lapphund next weekend and the fleas on her will be harder to see than on our white bully! So I want to make sure the yard is permoxin'd before I bring her home.

Can you get permoxin from Bunnings?

I will be de-fleaing the whole house this weekend and washing every item of fabric that could possibly be housing the little mongrels.

[Georgieboy]

Well, not sure if I'm more informed or more confused now..!

I want to whats best for George, but worry that all these chemicals cant be good for him :D . Have been using advocate for the last 6 months and a worm tablet every 3 months to get the wom variety that advocate doesn't get. We've had no flea problems (touch wood ) and I've just used our last tube. I know its a chemical, but by god it smells and feels yuck.

I guess I'll continue using it and keep my eyes on the market, they're always coming up with new products...

[Clyde]

My Rottie has FAD, at the moment we are washing him twice weekly in Maleseb (until it all settles), and treating him with Permoxin and Advantage. We applied Advantage but less than a week later we picked a number of fleas off him. Firstly I gave him a Capstar, then started to question the effectivness of a topical treatment when we are using such an intensive washing regime, especially since it relies on skin oils...

So this led me to look at alternatives, Sentinel Spectrum seemed the logical choice, but a vet recommended Revolution. What do fellow dolers think?

Once his FAD has settled, and we are back into a normal wash routine, we will switch back to Advantage / Advantix.

I did treat his environment today... But it is now raining, hope this doesn't undo my work.....

I would hold off on the top spots while you are washing frequently with Malaseb. After each wash I would rinse the dog with Permoxin. I would also treat the area, bomb your car and so on. Once the Malaseb washes finish I would continue with the top spot each fortnight until summer ends.

[vk2mpj]

Thanks Clyde, I have been rinsing him in Permoxin, as well as the daily sprays.

Up until today he was showing real signs of improvement. However today for some odd reason he has attacked his tail again, this time it is looking quite nasty... If there is no sign of improvment we will be back to the vet on Monday... Maybe I stopped the Prednisolone too soon...

My intention will be fornightly dosing with the top spot, but I am concerned mainly with what to do in the mean time... Revolution sounds okay, water proof within two hours etc...

[FranVT]

I have made the switch with Atlas to Comfortis and it is working a treat. He had a bit of FAD and it is clearing up and I am giving him Malaseb baths too. I have Luuka on Comfortis too.

Going to have a look at the feed'n'seed place this afternoon for permoxin to treat the environment. Little buggers. Can't wait 'til summer is over.

[cris]

Hi, new here, got a new RR 10 week old puppy, show quality, so this topic is very relevant!!

I live in acreage, sunshine coast, Qld and had chooks for a few years now and no flea problem there (though chook fleas are not the same as dog's). I use DE, food grade in my chooks once in a while, also in their sleep areas. I am for the natural thing if possible, so I wonder if this works on dogs too? DE is not toxic, but make sure you only try the food grade stuff, not the one used as a stabilizer in the swimming pools. Has anyone tried it, or came across it before? I will let you know how I go if I try it on my puppy myself. She has only been home a couple of days, so no urgent need for me yet ...

BTW, I learnt about this stuff after attending a 'how to raise chooks organically' course, that is what they recommended, and I think they were using it in their dogs as well, have to check it, will e-mail the instructor ...

[BMAK]

Hi,

We found 2 fleas on Angel this morn. She's been scratching like crazy for the last week but we didn't know why till today. She's scratched herself raw in places. I rang the vets and they said to wash all the dogs tonight with their normal shampoo and treat with spray on frontline tomorrow or the next day and wash all their bedding and hoover the house. I told him she gets Sentinel at the start of every month and he said that's not enough as it only sterilizes the eggs. He said we should use that and topical Advantage. Either all year round, but especially in the hotter months.

We're in Sydney and they don't hang out with other dogs very often, so I don't know where they could've come from. What's everyone elses flea routine?

Thanks

i know this is going a while back above^ but may be an allergy to flea bites

*touch wood my dogs have never gotten fleas in my area or from our house environment ! yaya she gets the monthly treatments aswell dont worry :rolleyes:

but, when i took my kelpie girl to the property for the day she would come home going insane by the next morning she had chewed her self red raw to the point a massive area of hair had been missing from her back side.

we washed her in alovleen and just applied betadine to the red area she continued to stratch and squeel

so a trip to the vets turns out she is allergic to the flea bites bad case so before we leave the property she has to be given a capstar to kill them, after the vet trip she was on antibiotics to help her deal with the inchiness and other crap we didnt want her on them but within the next day she had seen a 99% improvement in her behaviour and the area that she had chewed but within a matter of weeks vast improvments on recovery and hair growth.

we were using the products(revolution) works for us but it was to the end of the month, but if anyone has a bad case of fleas comfortis is the way to go, i dont have to use it as we raley get any fleas but i definatley know it works by friends and family must be given on a full stomach, a lot of small light weight dogs seem to vomit it up so make sure they have had a big meal and cant be given to dogs with epilepsy

[BMAK]

My Rottie has FAD, at the moment we are washing him twice weekly in Maleseb (until it all settles), and treating him with Permoxin and Advantage. We applied Advantage but less than a week later we picked a number of fleas off him. Firstly I gave him a Capstar, then started to question the effectivness of a topical treatment when we are using such an intensive washing regime, especially since it relies on skin oils...

So this led me to look at alternatives, Sentinel Spectrum seemed the logical choice, but a vet recommended Revolution. What do fellow dolers think?

Once his FAD has settled, and we are back into a normal wash routine, we will switch back to Advantage / Advantix.

I did treat his environment today... But it is now raining, hope this doesn't undo my work.....

i use revolution i have tried majority of the products not successful, my girl got mites around her eye so we got recomended that as it does mites and heartworm and it worked perfectly and fixed the problem but the only way you can find out what works is by testing them frontline doesnt work for a lot and works for some. have a look into the dog shampoo "Quitich" lotion antiseptic skin treatment for skin care of dogs, cats and horses can be bathed in or aplied by spray bottle or dabbin treatment of various skin conditions such as:

Eczema Dermatoses Fungal infections including Ringworm It is a great emergency treatment for Lacerations Wire Cuts Burns Abrasions and other superficial animal wounds

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[kyliestar]

my dog has never had fleas and i find that amazing, he itches from allergies and so i check him constantly for fleas and flea bath him every few months but i've never found a single flea.. i'd say they'd pick them up from the grass or local wildlife.

[ruthless]

This thread's pretty old. Our current routine is Permoxin the dogs frequently and we also spray the garden every couple of weeks. I think we'll give them a Sentinel once or twice a year as well from now on though.

[LizT]

I use Sentinel and found it took a few months to really "kick in" as the cycle needed to be broken. At first I thought it wasn't working. Renedering the fleas serile is a huge factor in breaking down the cycle because even if the flea jumps off the dog it's eggs are not going to hatch in your carpet or his bedding or cracks in your paving etc. etc.

On the rare occassion that my dogs pick up a flea (I take the Cavaliers to Dog Shows and sometimes they bring home a bug) I give them a Capstar. This seems to work well.

Our GSD is also on Sentinel and I have never found a flea on him or ever seen him scratching??