poodlefan Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Andoria: thats becasue of the detraint therapy , yesterday he came near me like normal but when i put my hand near his collar he doee try to bite me ... becasue he thinks im going to push him into the destrained. And you think this is an acceptable outcome from a training method. Jesus Your dog has learned he needs to defend himself from you. He is afraid of what happens when he's handled. What's going to happen if some unsuspecting person puts their hands in your dog's collar? Think about the consequences of what your dog's been forced to do by this trainer. This dog is now a biter.. who fears being handled by it's collar and will defend itself with it's teeth. And you now think this is "normal". I give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Andoria - can we have a little video of your dog walking on loose lead pls. Id like to see how your described method worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) I would like your opinion ? ... asking for advice ? No way. Not after we have been collectively referred to as a "F#@$ing Idiot" for our time and trouble in your earlier thread seeking help. Edited February 22, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andoria1 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) Omg for freaking sake . i never said it was normal for a dog to be frigtened of me he has never been UNTIL STRAINED THEREAPY WAS USED ON HIM. FOR ONLY ! DAY WHICH WAS 30 MIN byMY trainner . AFTER THAT my dog thinks when he comes near me or OH will do this to him ALL THE TIME. SO .... my OH and i DONT like this trainng method and will never use it. What i am doing is getting dog use to me touching the collar because i cant put lead on... because of destraint therapy (*which i dislike) So im getting him to trust me again by letting him come to me and touching his collar which has been going ok so far. I give up on you people becasue you people obviously dont read the posts. My dog has always been a biter he is an ACD he likes to bite all the time. Poodlefan are you reading what i am writing or are you reading what you want to read ? Edited February 22, 2007 by Andoria1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andoria1 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 i would love to put up a video or dog walking but i dont have a video cam ... only web cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andoria1 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) i give up *rolls eyes* i think you guys should appologise to the OP for turning this topic about me again ... I apologies to topic starter for this thread is hijacked as i was only trying to help ... Edited February 22, 2007 by Andoria1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 digital photo camera? they have a video mode, I do all my stuff on that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Feeling guilty that Chepet's thread is being drawn way . Please accept my apologies. Chepet - I tend not to train over the net. Each dog and each handler is an individual and should be assessed as such. Given your physical limitation/difficulty, I can only reiterate my very high recommendation that you seek and obtain instruction from a reputable and qualified trainer. "A picture is worth a 1000 words" as they say, and the trainer would be able to assess you and the dog to determine as to the suitability of the chosen method and/or whether it requires adaptation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Andoria- most dogs don't 'like to bite'. The only dogs i know that do are carefully trained police or personal protection dogs. And the fact that he is an ACD makes it no different. To the OP, a good trainer would be able to help you and the dog and find the best technique to suit you both. There are many equipment options that can help but only when they are used correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidoney Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 ACDs are bred to "heel". Mine did occasionally. That is different to biting out of fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog21 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Thats what i said before it worked for my dog . It may or may not work for for this persons dog ........ How is giving a dog a quick tug harsh and cruel ? Please answer me this . I find that my dog is chocking more when hes pulling on the lead and is almost out of breath. I would like your opinion ? As so that the other thread was supossedly about right ... asking for advice ? You've got it in one Andoria1, rip his bloody head off. Bloody dogs, anybody would think they had feelings. You seem to be a self appointed expert. Hope you're a qualified vet as well. Sounds like your dogs will need some treatment. To the original poster. Poodlefan and Erny have a wealth of experience with training dogs using positive methods. I suggest you follow their advice. Back to my paint box, new sign coming up ' Please don't feed the Trolls' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepet Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 Feeling guilty that Chepet's thread is being drawn way . Please accept my apologies.Chepet - I tend not to train over the net. Each dog and each handler is an individual and should be assessed as such. Given your physical limitation/difficulty, I can only reiterate my very high recommendation that you seek and obtain instruction from a reputable and qualified trainer. "A picture is worth a 1000 words" as they say, and the trainer would be able to assess you and the dog to determine as to the suitability of the chosen method and/or whether it requires adaptation. Thanks for the apology ,I must admit I'm feeling a little guilty for having started all this & thanks to everyone for their suggestions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 How is giving a dog a quick tug harsh and cruel ? Correcting a dog for something taht the dog doesnt know its done wrong. Untill the dog knows the word and a required action for the owrd why on earth would you want to correct it for doing something? chepet stick around and you will learn here heaps, however I must say that walking on loose lead needs to be seen, it cant be explained over the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Thanks for the apology ,I must admit I'm feeling a little guilty for having started all this & thanks to everyone for their suggestions You should not feel guilty at all. You asked a legitimate question and did right by seeking advice, even if the answers have been to seek face to face tuition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog_Horse_Girl Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 It's interesting how many people want to use the lead to pull and brake their dogs while walking. I'm always on my student's back about it and I ask this question.What method wiill you use to get the dog in the correct heeling position when the lead comes off ? I can't stand push, pull, get physical methods of dog training for one simple reason (among others): It only works when the dog is within arms reach. For much of the things we do with our dogs, they ain't. Basically it's bullying. Remove the dog from the scope of being able to use force and it's no wonder so many give their handlers the finger. Well said PF! I wonder why so many dogs seem to have this issue? It's certainly only IMO b/c they've been allowed to pull or walk as they please in the first place. It's not a problem that is an overnight-fixer either. I would probably suggest using food treats as a lure to keep the dog in the desired position and to distract the dog from his intended path with a lure, marker and praise when the job is done right. But as I've said, it's not something that's fixed quickly in many cases. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) Use of the lead should IMO be handled judiciously. Unfortunately, many people become reliant on the lead (them erstwhile thinking it's the DOG that needs it!). Use of body; body technique; well timed praise and releases; appropriate reward (doesn't have to be food or food lure - people and dogs can become just as dependant on these as they are on the lead they hold **). Sometimes I think that even if the dog would behave the same without the lead, the owners/handlers would be lost and devoid of co-ordination if they weren't able to hold and use it. Wherever and whenever I can, I like to train 'pretending' I don't have the lead in my hand. However, from memory I think the OP simply needs her dog to not pull. Not to have to always be in "heel" right at her leg. All the same, it's still about use of body etc, what you do with it and when. ** Not to suggest food lure and/or food reward doesn't have its place. Edited February 22, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I wonder why so many dogs seem to have this issue? becouse people dont have enough experience and let the dogs to get away with it when they are puppies becosue people ahveint been shown how to teach the dogs from the start becouse people ahve been shown but didnt follow the method through/lack patience becouse people dont know how to assert themself as alpha int he pack becouse some dogs dotn have high pack drive becouse some dogs consider something else a higher value than being next to the owner becosue all of the above plus a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I wonder why so many dogs seem to have this issue? All of what Myszka said, plus A LOT of inconsistancy in handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) Lillysmum: I wonder why so many dogs seem to have this issue? Because so many dogs are walked on lead. Its what Myzska and Erny said. Dogs do it because it profits them to do so. What they have to learn is that it won't. You teach them that they don't get to move in the direction they wish to go unless the lead is loose. A smart dog can get the basics of that in 10 minutes if you use a clicker - the skill is in training the handler to do it. If you start with a puppy and do all the right things they will never learn be a habitual puller. People let their pups tow them on lead because a pup isn't as strong. The habit becomes ingrained and it only becomes a problem for the handler (it doesn't tend to be one for the dog) when the dog starts pulling their arm out of its socket. Personally, part from "come", I think loose lead walking is the most important lesson a dog needs to learn. The reason for that belief is that dogs that aren't easy to walk on lead usually end up languishing in back yards, never being walked at all. Edited February 22, 2007 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) I wonder why so many dogs seem to have this issue? It's certainly only IMO b/c they've been allowed to pull or walk as they please in the first place. I think it is because it is as natural for us to apply pressure to a leash as it is for an animal to reflex against that pressure. Restraint is used in many dog sports, the aim of it is to get the dog to pull and it is a very successful method. I do it all the time. How is the dog to understand when pulling is OK & whan it is not? I think as humans we do it (apply force to the leash) all the time, from when our dogs are pups. I think we teach them to pull and then try to correct it later. Edited February 22, 2007 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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