In Regards To Destraint Therapy Topic

[ChrisB]

Hi Everyone,

I said I wasn't going to post again but well.. here I am ;-)

If Andoria doesn't stop posting I've threatened to remove her access to dogsonline by blocking it on our proxy server ;)

A couple of points:

We are going to continue training with Melissa. Aside from the rolling I believe the rest of the training methods have worked extremely well (yes even the stairs and the door) I won't re-iterate what I have said about the door and stairs except to say again - I firmly believe there was no cruelty or force involved. The benefits of her other methods are plainly evident. I can see a difference in Chewy's behaviour in the last week and it is all for the best and for the first time this week, we were able to take him on a walk without him trying to yank our arms out of there sockets.. end result will be that he will go on more walks progressively getting longer over time

We still have some issues, obviously Chewy is going to need alot of work but that is work that we are both prepared to do.

Some people have hinted that Andoria exaggerated her original post, I don't believe that as she is not a malicious person. What she did was for the benefit of Chewy. We both want the best for him and of course for us. She posted what she thought was happening from her perspective... I'm not going to comment on that any further.

Her post after Melissa called us one night saying she had received threats via email was probably not the best method she could have used - however I am sure that every single person that reads this has been furious at some point in there lives. Some people handle it differently from others.

Some people have hinted that Andoria was ungrateful and didn't apply the advice she was given by other forum members. Sorry but you are not here and I will say first hand she has tried a whole bunch of suggestions made to her from your community. If she didn't post results from this perhaps that is a bit ungrateful - but she did try to apply them..

I guess I could write all night but I'd just like to sum this post up with:

We both want what is best for Chewy. Neither of us wants to see him being put down due to his (and our) lack of training. You may not agree with Melissa's methods and you may not agree with Andoria's statements. In the end that doesn't matter as you really don't have anything to do with Chewy or us.

I do thank everyone for the advice they have given regarding Chewy and again apologies for the knee-jerk reaction that Andoria had after we spoke with Melissa the other night, it definately could have been handled differently ;-)

Chris

Edited February 23, 2007 by ChrisB

[sas]

OK, bye bye & good luck ;)

Edited February 23, 2007 by sas

[sas]

I get pissed off at owners even mentioning the use of E-Collars, spiked collars, or any other pain based training method.

From that comment, I presume you haven't been educated or trained by a qualified professional in the use of these training tools?

[Kelpie-i]

Whoooa....I'm dizzy!!! ;)

Edited February 23, 2007 by Kelpie-i

[Erny]

... you really don't have anything to do with Chewy or us.

Ok.

Bye

;)

What a turn up for the tables these collective threads (including deleted one) has been. A complete about face.

Edited February 23, 2007 by Erny

[Sayreovi]

We both want what is best for Chewy. Neither of us wants to see him being put down due to his (and our) lack of training. You may not agree with Melissa's methods and you may not agree with Andoria's statements. In the end that doesn't matter as you really don't have anything to do with Chewy or us.

If it doesnt matter why was this all started in the first place?

Respectable trainers told you too see a different trainer, and yet you continue with this "trainer".

If you want whats best for Chewy go too K9 Force. A proper trainer who will help without using outdated methods.

[Rom]

-Melissa Bruce, Clever Paws MDT

What does MDT stand for?

[poodlefan]

ChrisB:

If Andoria doesn't stop posting I've threatened to remove her access to dogsonline by blocking it on our proxy server

Perhaps if you let her take full responsiblity for her behaviour rather than controlling and defending it, she'd learn to take some responsibility for herself and stop endlessly creating "difficulties".

Then again, maybe not. ;)

Lack of leadership, misunderstanding the true nature of a dog and heavy handed techniques have led you both to where you are now with Chewie. Please learn from that.

[k9phoenix]

-Melissa Bruce, Clever Paws MDT

What does MDT stand for?

I was always under the impression that it stood for master dog trainer - at such a young age??! WOW

(someone please correct me if this is not what that stands for)

Edited February 23, 2007 by WA_dingo_trainer

[Janba]

-Melissa Bruce, Clever Paws MDT

What does MDT stand for?

It stands in her case for mobile dog training.

[k9phoenix]

Ahhh, I see

[persephone]

Melissa, well done for posting your side of the story.

I hope Chewy continues to improve, that andoria and chrisB continue learning how to effectively and gently communicate with their wayward boy, and that it all works out.

[Jeff Jones]

This is why the dog training industry needs to have a controlling governing body making sure people have the right accreditations to be classed as dog trainers.

It might stop every Joe Bloe or Melissa Bloe who dont have the right qualifications and experience from ruining other people’s dogs, and giving the rest of the people in the industry a bad name.

i suppose Andoria and ChrisB don’t care about that or the overall welfare of there dog...looks like they are going to keep on rolling on with Melissa.

Clever Paws Training - We can train your dog without its paws touching the ground.

;)

[Cosmolo]

;) Absolutely agree Jeff. It is an industry that is screaming for a governing body with powers. Joe bloggs from down the road can't come and rewire my house so why should he be able to train someone else's dog? I saw an 11 month old dog with serious aggression issues yesterday that should never have happened- the owners received bad advice from 2 different training 'groups' that leaves me shaking my head..

[Staranais]

\Wouldn't it be rather hard to regulate, though? For example, many trainers think that using ecollars or prong collars is an unacceptable way to train, but many other trainers use them successfully and (IMO) humanely. Some trainers obviously still think alpha rolling is fine, whereas others hate the idea. How would the governing body decide what was acceptable and what wasn't, when dog trainers can't agree themselves?

[Rom]

-Melissa Bruce, Clever Paws MDT

What does MDT stand for?

It stands in her case for mobile dog training.

Phew! I was having nightmares that it might have stood for Master Destraint Therapist

[Jeff Jones]

\Wouldn't it be rather hard to regulate, though? For example, many trainers think that using ecollars or prong collars is an unacceptable way to train, but many other trainers use them successfully and (IMO) humanely. Some trainers obviously still think alpha rolling is fine, whereas others hate the idea. How would the governing body decide what was acceptable and what wasn't, when dog trainers can't agree themselves?

its hard to regulate any industry.

I dont know any qualified dog trainers though the NDTF or Delta who use abusive training methods to gain control of training dogs, i do however know alot of unqualified/uncertified dog trainers who use these methods as they are not educated in proper training techniques.

if there was some sort of National Dog Trainers Network set up to issue licences/permits to Certified dog trainers atleast it would prove that only certified people were out training dogs.

these are only my ideas... at the moment i would be happy if to conduct a dog training business the person has to be a certified dog trainer (Certified in Australia)

[carousel266]

\Wouldn't it be rather hard to regulate, though? For example, many trainers think that using ecollars or prong collars is an unacceptable way to train, but many other trainers use them successfully and (IMO) humanely. Some trainers obviously still think alpha rolling is fine, whereas others hate the idea. How would the governing body decide what was acceptable and what wasn't, when dog trainers can't agree themselves?

I think its the same in every profession though isn't it? And other professions have managed to come up with sets of rules regulations and guidelines. A central regulatory body would have to conduct and gather research on various methods and techniques and decide as a whole what is acceptable, humane, and effective, and then put these guidelines into force. For example they may rule that certain collars are ok to use, if used correctly, however some trainers may still decide not to use them.

Anyways, thats my two cents worth :-)

[MonElite]

How would you like to see it done guys? And what about traing clubs where volounteers (like myslef) teach?

Just to give everyone that isnt in the known and idea - my club is under the Delta "umbrella" all instructors in the club underwent a course run by the chief instructor and had to pass an exam. I have to say it was pretty easy.

My club also stresses that if an instructor isnt sure or confident about doing something with a dog tahn they reffer a dog to the chief instructor and if its a difficult case the dog is reffered to a pro - in our case either Steve Austin or K9

[Cosmolo]

Great question myzka. Here's what i think

- Any person who advertises private training of any kind is required to be an accredited trainer, to have completed a nationally recognised Australian course.

- Any group or club training must be registered with the VCA OR be under the direct supervision of an accredited trainer. For those clubs who are VCA registered but do not have accredited trainers, they must not attempt to deal with problems outside the scope of general obedience. Behaviour problems including but not limited to aggression, anxiety and excessive barking must be referred either to an accredited trainer at the club OR to an accredited trainer outside the club

I don't think the regulatory body would have to get involved in methods and tools except to say that cruelty is not permitted which is the case under the animal welfare act anyway. Anybody who is accredited would have knowledge and experience regarding tools and their use, even if they then choose not to use them.