Puppy Socialisation Problems – Where To From Here?

[david99]

Hi all,

I have a 4 month old female Doberman puppy that needs further socialization to help build up her confidence.

We have finished 5 weeks of puppy preschool where she was always quite shy. Unfortunately when we go out for walks etc she is still quite scared of unknown dogs & people. For instance, should she see a stranger on a walk she will generally stop, or try and pull away. If another dog tries and plays with her and jumps or runs at her playfully she will back away and yelp.

She has never had any bad experiences with people / dogs while I have owned her and she came from an excellent breeder. I have also only used positive reinforcement with her.

I have tried to introduce her with strangers with treats, as well as take her to new places, I am also taking her to group obedience classes – but she still isn’t showing much increase in confidence.

I was recommended to some in house training by hanrob. In particular the 3 week course that includes the following points (as well as the obedience):

• STABILITY AND DISTRACTION TRAINING

• SOCIALISATION WITH OTHER DOGS AND HUMANS

• SOCIABLE AND ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOUR TRAITS

Obviously I would like to work on these issues while she is still young, but am unsure whether there is anything I could be doing? I don’t want to send her away somewhere only to find out they are using harsh training methods or doing anything that could make things worse.

Any suggestions on where to go from here?

Any thoughts on hanrobs inhouse training or similar programs?

Thanks all.

Edited February 5, 2007 by david99

[Kavik]

Is your pup scared of all people and all dogs or only certain ones? How much socialisation have you done - have you taken her to other places apart from puppy class?

With a shy pup you may want to find some treats she really likes, and give these to strangers who agree to help. But you want her to go up to them on her own, not have the stranger come to your pup. You may have to get the strangers to sit/kneel at the beginning and not give eye contact and not pat her until she is more confident.

With other dogs - what does she do when she sees them? Does she sort of want to say hi/investigate, does she bark or growl, try to run away, hackles up?

What club are you currently training at? What sort of methods are you using and how busy is it?

myszka started a thread to help her Dobe pup who is shy of men touching her. There is some good advice in there

http://forums.dogzonline.com.au/index.php?showtopic=89384

[david99]

Thanks Kavik for the quick reply.

She is not confident around any stranger or dog, it doesn’t seem to matter what size, type, breed, race etc…

Socialisation – she goes for walks in varying places, at least once daily. Sometimes two short walks instead. She has been through puppy preschool. She does get introduced to strangers where possible - but she is already quite large and people don’t seem to want to interact with her as much now. It doesn’t help that she shy’s away from them.

In terms of other dogs – once she sees them she stops, if they come towards her then she pulls away from them. She doesn’t bark or growl. Sometimes she gets submissive and rolls on her back, but if they try and play with her she yelps even if they don’t touch her.

But with that said, she is fine with people and dogs she knows. There is a 40kg mastiff that she loves to play rough with, infact, she a little terror and doesn’t leave him alone, jumping all over him, biting, playing, chasing etc… She has no problems with him jumping / running at her whatsoever.

I am currently attending group classes at castle hill showground. It wasn’t overly busy, which is good, as I found she was her shyest at puppy school when lots of dogs were around …baby steps. She has only been there once so it’s still early days.

Thanks for the link, I shall have a read through it.

[Miranda]

I am not a dog trainer or behaviourist, but I would advise against sending this particular dog away for training. Others may disagree, but I really think that such a situation would put incredible stress on your dog and could possibly make her worse.

As you say I think that 'baby steps' would definitely be the best way. There are some very knowledgeable people on this forum, I'm sure that you'll get lots of good advice.

[Cosmolo]

I have worked with boarding and training dogs and i wouldn't advise sending a dog in with these kind of issues at such a young age. It can be very successful but the main principle in play is flooding and you definitely don't want incomplete flooding. (flooding is putting a dog in a situation they are uncomfortable with until they get over the issue- incomplete flooding would be removing the dog while they are still stressed or fearful)

I would instead recommend setting up controlled interactions with dogs and/ or people, keeping in mind that she doesn't have to be all over everyone she sees, just accepting of their presence. If your current obedience club is not in a position to do this with some well behaved and very obedient dogs, you might want to look at a private session with a good trainer who has their own dogs to use. I do this regularly with my dogs and clients dogs- make sure if you do go down this road that the instructors dog is actually well behaved and under control- it should not be a matter of getting another dog to jump all over yours- quite the opposite in fact!

[david99]

Thanks all for the advice, really helpful and appreciated.

I will look into having some personal lessons with a trainer at hanrob and see what we can arrange in terms of socialising her with other placid dog(s) as well as continue with group obedience and socialisations on outings.

It seems like Steve Austin left Hanrob last year. Does anyone have any recommendations for good trainers there?

Thanks

[PAX]

Here is my two cents.....lol.

I have a pup who was very shy, she does not like strange dogs or stange people. I have continued to socialise her but not made an issue of her meeting new dogs or people, I have just worked on her obedience & training with me. If I tell her to sit she has to sit, I make the decisions not her and I beleive by being a confident handler you make your dog confident. I try not to let her be in a situation where she would want to pull back or away even if that means you work slightly away from the others for a while.

My pup is now seven months old and I took her to training last night (it has just restarted after the xmas break) and I was so impressed by her confidence and her happy playful manner at the training grounds.

Also Dobes love to play so I suggest getting her addicted to tug toys, it is a great game to use with training as the best reward and also when you need to distract them from something else.

Castle Hill Club has a very good name and I know they have some very good trainers that I'm sure could help you.

[Kavik]

I didn't know Steve left Hanrob . . . interesting . . . I must be out of the loop

[whatevah]

Is the socializing with dogs on lead or off lead?

[david99]

Is the socializing with dogs on lead or off lead?

Thanks for the replies.

PAX - I have taken your advice on board and will follow through with your suggestions. I will also discuss the problem further with the trainers at castle hill showground.

Yes, unfortunately Steve left Hanrob in December.

CrashTestDummy: The socialising I have given her has been on lead. The only time she has gone off lead with other dogs was during the final week of puppy preschool when there were only a few dogs present on the day and they were all placid and gentle much like her.

[PAX]

Some pups and dogs are better off lead for socialising than on lead but I know my pup would of just bolted in fear.

After last night I am confident it is all behind us.

[MonElite]

Where are you located?

I do pretty much what every one else has said here already, done exactly what PAX said and for now I try to work with people that are dog people, at least that way they are not scared, they are willing to help, they understand the problem.

I instruct at Peakhurst - we dont get back till first weekend fo march, I do attend classes at Homebush (thanks Kavik) and I like it there.

I have been there tonight and my girl has done a perfect stand for exam for a female.

I aproached a man that trains there to help me and she was happy to take food from him receive pets, raid his pockets and than follow him

She ignored dogs in the class, was a bit worried when we had to do a close group sit, but worked through that nicely for treats and paying attention to me.

So baby steps, situations there are arranged, people arranged and understanding of the problem.

Id love to know what breeder and waht breeding is your puppy pls PM me the details.

[PAX]

Id love to know what breeder and waht breeding is your puppy pls PM me the details.

What a sticky beak.

[MonElite]

Dont you want to know as well?

[Incavale]

What was the pup like when you bought her & why was she desexed so early?

[whatevah]

Tia was very nervous around dogs. All the socialising I did with her was off lead. For the reason if she wants to get away she can and less likely to panic.

I went to a friends place who had a nice dog, I just let Tia do her thing and look around and an hour later!!! she suddenly started playing with this kelpie and enjoying herself. Tia is fine now with other dogs.

But Tia knew if the situation was too much she could get away.

I would take your puppy to a friendly dog that you know and let her socialise off lead. If you have pick a safe place.

[wisha]

I took my labrador puppy to Hanrob last year and the training was really useful. As it has been discussed in this thread, Steve Austin and his partner Vicky have left Hanrob at the end of the year and I was really disappointed by the training offered there this year - although the lessons were 50% cheaper, they were too large and nothing new was being taught lesson from lesson.

I have found a new dog trainer in the Sutherland Shire - Paws Up Dog Training - run by Jodie on Thursday evenings at Sylvania and Sunday mornings at Miranda. Lessons are $20 for about an hour and my puppy has really improved since going to them. Jodie taylors the lesson to suit the problems you are having so you come away with specific things to work on during the week.

Let me know if you want any details about the classes. I highly recommend them.

Cheers

Louise

Edited March 26, 2007 by wisha

[TangerineDream]

One thing that I've found to work very well for nervous pups is to take it one step at a time...your pup needs you around to help with confidence rather than having to go to someone (who is a stranger - I think that would send her 2 steps back).

Cadence (GSP) was nervouse as a youngster - I used to go and just sit with him for half an hour in the general location eg: shops or schools or near roads and generally let him get used to it by it being around - I didn't treat him any differently while we were there and slowly but surely he gained confidence, almost because he got bored with it...and then we moved onto the next thing..

Tango had a fear of skate parks when he was young, so I would go and sit within sight a hearing of one (100m away to start with - which was where he'd just start to react) and gradually move closer a few metres at a time as he stopped reacting to the noise and movement - took me a few weeks but he got to the stage that he actually wanted to move towards them rather than away from them. I got bored witless sitting around, but it was worth every minute...he became totally confident.

I'd pick 1 thing at a time, and just go and sit in the area...if it's people, go sit somewhere where people walk past so that she gets used to people coming and going and being igored, when she's not reacting anymore and is 'bored' with it, move to somewhere around a shopping area and repeat the process. Take one thing at a time and be prepared to move further back...don't stress and don't encourage here - let her do it all herself, just sit with her and let her crawl over you if she wants..

Lot's of luck - you'll get there, but you might be a bit bored with it....don't rush the process and you might find that it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back for a while, but that's normal.

PS: Tango had this mortal fear of barbeques - took me a couple of days to work out what it was......as soon as he heard one or smelt smoke he'd go backwards...solution - we had a barbeque in his run every night for a week :D ....I had the barbeque on top of his kennel and also had a handful of cheese.....everytime he moved towards the bbq I gave him a bit of cheese....he got so comfortable around bbq's I then had to teach him to stay a respectful distance away - but it was a huge difference to the pup I had to carry past a bbq at a show in Bendigo as a baby

PS: the cheese thing works well in many fear situations (or salami, something wonderfiul for the pup)

[Monah]

My viz was exactly like this last year. She was so jittery on walks and terrified of everything. Also did puppy pre school, but then did beginners obed. The contact with other dogs and people was great for her. She learnt in a 'doggie' atmosphere that people are nice. Was still a little shy so when I could (family health prbs last year) I took her back and we do agility and obed 2 nights a week. Not for comps, just for socialising. She has really blossomed and it's great that you don't have to worry about other people's reactions if she's startled. Just explain and they deal with it accordingly. Where as with the 'public' they rush up to pat or do something silly which upsets the dog. Anyway, we have come a long way, she is now 14 months and we still have a way to go with under 5s and toy posession. I had private training too which helped but it was definately better in the group situation, especially practicing with dogs and other people walking around and behind her in the stay position without me there. I wish youlots of luck, it can be very upsetting but I'm sure it will all turn out OK.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx