What's With Zac?

[ausdogsx6]

Hi guys,

I have 6 dogs. 2 kelpies, 2 b/collies, 1 ACD and 1 kelpie x b/collie. They all have beautiful coats except my 2 yo kelpie, Zac. He is a lovely dark chocolate colour and normally has a very shiny coat, but at the moment his coat is dull and a sunburnt looking brown. It is not sunburnt though, just looks that way. He is also acting a bit strange, kind of jumpy. Its as if he cant relax and he has to be on the look out for something or someone to get him. Kelpies are always full of energy but normally Zac is waggy bouncy happy. Now he looks kind of worried all the time. He doesnt seem to trust me any more. He has a very red skin on his belly and a bit like flea bites but he doesnt have fleas. He is wormed regularly and has frontline every month but lately he gets really upset about the frontline. I asked the vet who said perhaps he had a little scab or something when I put the frontline on and it stung a bit because it is alcohol based. But he has become so paranoid about frontline that he wont let me touch him around his neck or ears now because he thinks frontline is coming.

All my dogs are fed the same. They have 1 kg of raw pet mince divided between 6 dogs. Also 1kg of homebrand frozen mixed vegies between 6, and 1 cup of Boney complete dry food each. They also have a fish oil capsule each. This they are fed once a day. The other dogs all seem happy and look great. Zac looks worried, edgy and his coat is dull. He is fat enough and his eyes look bright and he has plenty of energy. Just not the fun loving, happy full on dog as before. I would be greatful for any ideas.

[KOE]

Dont use the frontline it is either giving him a reaction or burning him, I put one of those spot on things on Oliver and he went very wierd. My mums dog has some sort of reaction to Frontline gets a red stomach and screaches when she put it on the second time so she threw it out.

Dogs are like humans and can get allergies overnight.

hope he feels better soon.

[Kirty]

How old is he? Is he desexed? He could be going through a hormonal phase and be stressed, which would make his coat look crappy.

He may also have allergies - my dog gets allergies on his belly and it starts off red, then he gets little "mozzie bites" all over his belly. It is caused by a plant.

Some of those spot-on treatments can be very harsh. I used Revolution on my cats once, and they all got bald patches on their backs. I have found Advantage to be the mildest - perhaps try that instead of the Frontline? Or perhaps skip the treatment for a month and let his skin recover. When you do put it on, have a treat ready so he associates the treatment with a pleasant experience.

Is it possible that something has happened to him to cause him to be stressed? Got in a fight or hit by someone, etc. Perhaps he is having issues with one of the other dogs?

Sorry, just throwing ideas out there! I love Kelpies - hope he is doing better soon.

[haven]

Sounds like your dog could be copper deficient. I'd try a supplementation program with things like copper, magnesium, apple cider vinegar, B vitamins, vitamin C and E etc. and see how that affects things. Coconut is good for skin and coat problems and licqourice apparently has a good detoxing effect.

Is he eating anything that he shouldn't be?

My dog also has atopy, although I'd have thought your Vet would have told you if an allergy was suspected. You could try washing the affected areas with a medicated shampoo, such as malaseb, to see if that helps.

[ausdogsx6]

Zac is 2 yo. and yes he has been desexed. We have 5 other dogs, all female. He has Chelsea ( 10 month old desexed kelpie) in the yard with him at all times, but they all get out of their yards and play together through the day and they all come in at night.

Zac, however, has decided that he doesnt want to come in at night lately. I have to go and bring him in. I dont know why he is reluctant to come in because normally he would bolt in as soon as invited. I still think it might be to do with the frontline, and I usually do them all when they are inside. I have bathed him in Aloveen oatmeal shampoo but that hasnt helped much.

[KOE]

If it is the spot on you will have to wait for it too get out of his system.

[ausdogsx6]

Do you have any idea how long that might take?

[ausdogsx6]

Does anyone have any good ideas on natural flea treatments and I am also reading a lot of stuff about heartworm and vacination reactions. Zac has a yearly heartworm injection that is due at the same time as his vacinations. The problem is that dog clubs dont allow you to join without a current vaccination certificate. I would really like to be able to have my dogs on a completely natural plan but dont know how this can be done.

[Staff'n'Toller]

Check with your club to see if they will accept a titre test.

Unfortunately we can't test for kennel cough anitbodies at the moment, but I have heard of some Vet's changing to a kennel cough booster once a year and the DHP not as often.

Cheers,

Mel.

[ausdogsx6]

yesterday Zac was doing his sooky, dont touch me act. I managed to hold him sort of still just long enough to find that one of his claws was cracked. He wouldnt let me see how damaged it was so I took him to the vet today. It was not cracked right through and so was not really obvious without a really close look, which I have not been able to do on my own. I feel really bad that I didnt pick it up sooner as it looks as if it has been like it for a while. anyway, the vet had to cut 2/3 of it away. Poor dog, it must have hurt him. He now has it bandaged up to stop it bleeding and he actually seems a lot happier tonight. Could be that this has been the problem all along. He just didnt understand why it was hurting. It doesnt really explain why his coat is so dry looking though.

While at the vets, I asked about his coat and pointed out the ginger coloured patches on his rump and tail. she reckons it might be just a bit sunburned. Also asked about reactions to frontline and vacinations. Of course, she does not agree to not vacinating and sugested to try sentinel spectrum instead of frontline. I havent heard of this stuff before but aparently it covers intestinal worms, heartworm, tapeworm and fleas. Has anyone used it and if so, any reactions?

[MonElite]

I had a flea outbreak a while ago and tried all sorts of natural stuff to help the chemicals do the job.

I mix eucalyptus oil with water and spray everything with it, fleas dont like that smell.

I planted mint in my yard, I put lime on my grass, I feed garlick to the dogs.

Each time I had treated the dogs for leas I used a differnet product as it seemed that fleas were getting used to one.

I now have used advantage that covers fleas and heartworm.

I dont do a yearly heartworm, done it once and my dog was off coulour for couple of weeks after it.

I have a little table with various products on it and what they cover, I can tell you specific ones if you want, let me know what product you are interested in.

Sentinel spectrum covers internal parasites including some types of tapeworm, heartworm, DOES NOT kill adult fleas but breaks flea life cycle.

Frontline Plus on another hand covers all fleas, brown and paralysis ticks and lice

[Lablover]

Just a thought, maybe Zac has a thyroid problem?

You have a lot of dogs..............like me LOL.

[Erny]

Here's a link to NATURAL FLEA TREATMENTS from the "Health Forum". It might help seeing as you'd want to give your dog a chance to "detox" from chemicals to see whether his reaction is allergy based.

However, I'd recommend you steer clear of any remedies (natural or not) that are likely to sting your dog's skin (which, given that it is red, would be sensitive at the moment).

If you search in the "Health Forum" for allergies to 'spot-on' treatments, you find quite a lot of information which may help you.

[persephone]

I thought thyroid, as well

[KOE]

Do you have any idea how long that might take?

I would say the amount of time between the first and when the 2nd lot is due add a week or two. Oliver took 2 weeks or so for the redness to go away.

hope he is getting better.

[Erny]

I thought thyroid, as well

Hhhhmmm .... but it's the red skin that doesn't match.

Apart from the dullness of coat, the skin/coat would also be likely (but admittedly, not necessarily) to have an 'oilyish' feel to it.

And I'm not so sure thyroiditis would cause behaviour that is so selective. Eg. Reluctance to come inside.

Question to the OP. Is he reluctant to come inside if you are NOT there?

Edited February 6, 2007 by Erny

[Lablover]

Not that I am disagreeing with you Erny, but thyroid is the cause for many health/behaviour problems. Many other symptoms may apply.

I did pause before adding my reply, as the dog is under veterinary care, and surely (maybe LOL) the vet is the best to judge?

[haven]

Hypothyroidism is the most common endocrinde disease in dogs and can be present with few or even no symptoms.

The only reason I found out my Rotti had it was because she was recovering so slowly from surgery the Vet did some extra tests to find out why. She showed no other symptoms at the time or to this day.

[Erny]

I agree with you Lablover. However, it still doesn't 'fit' in my mind given that the dog's behaviour seems to have a degree of selective areas. Neither have I heard of rash being a symptom although I admit that could be a secondary symptom. You're right though - the Vet would soon be able to confirm or disclaim.

Haven - I didn't know it would show no symptoms, although on that note I wonder if that's a case of symptoms taking some time to develop? I agree that Hypothyroidism is more endemic than we would give it credit for.

Edited February 7, 2007 by Erny

[ausdogsx6]

Thanks for all your replies,

I did ask the vet about thyroid but she says she doubts as he has no change in weight or lack of energy so she kind of dismissed thyroid. Perhaps I should be more insistant about testing anyway.

I have made a big effort to spend more time with him. I must admit that since I got the puppies, (all 4 are around 8-10months) there has been less time for him. Before that, he and Candie went everywhere with me. Now I tend to take the puppies out more often because I want them to be well socialised. I think it has made a difference in him after a few days of individual attention. He might be feeling like he has done something wrong by being left at home in the yard more often than would have happened before. Also, because of the warm nights he has been left out whereas before he always stayed inside with us all night.

I read that in the wild, the pack leader will force a dog from the pack for days if he has displeased the top dog. Maybe he is wondering what he has done wrong?

This doesnt explain the fact that his coat is so dull or the rash but may explain his sooky behaviour. Also the fact that his claw would have been sore. What ever, he does seem happier and when I called them all in tonight he bolted in full of bounce just like he used to.