MonElite Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 As many regulars here know I have my 10 month old dobie puppy Divani. She is a joy, great puppy, very smart and for a young pet very obiedient. She is also aloof with strangers (I guess as a dobermann should be) but there is one prob with her - she really doesnt like man. She is a show dog and obviously this is a big problem for me, as she wont let males touch her. Head is OK, but anything pass the neck as a no go zone. I dont have this problem with females at all, been to few shows recently and went in the ring she stood for me nicely, let the female judge examine her on a free standing with no probs what so ever. I was for a while wondering why is that, as there is more man coming to my house than woman and she loves those she knows. With new man it takes her a while to check them out but once she is confident she isnt going to be hurt she goes up herslef and than is friends for ever. Last week I took her for a walk and left the Rex behind in the yard. He could see us in the distance and barked and whinged a lot and I have over heard my neighbour yelling at Rex, way over the top. He was trying to call Rex (Rex likes the neighbour) and I think Rex went to him but the yelling continued despite Rex wasnt barking any more. so I came to a conclusion that the neighbour treats the girl the same way when she barks. And of course from what I have noticed she hates him..... As I live next door to a golf course the side and the back of my property back on to two greens on the goolf course and there are heaps of people walking by all day every day. Divani doesnt bark at them often however she occasionally will, so I guess the neighbour gets upset about that and possibly yells at her, who knows maybe throws something at her. So I guess he is somehow contibuting to my problem. And where I know how to overcome the prob in life and I have sucessfully done so repeatedly, in the show ring I have the whole 10 seconds to stack her and the judge comes along to examine her. There is no time for me to give food to the judge, for her to take her time etc. How do I overcome the issue? I can force her into position and get guys to go over her repeatedly, but of course she looks as if she is being killed, confidence is gone and for the show ring that is a no go. To keep her confidence and happyness she needs time and she needs to work out herself that a particular man isnt there to hurt her, the luxury of time I dont have in the ring. Any input welcome. - training wise of course. neighbour and a lot higher fencing - Illl deal with it in due course. I might add that the neighbour has a small fluffy that yapps all day long. I will also add that I have a good relationship with the neigbours. I ahvent spoken to him about it as yet as Im too upset and I thnk Id loose the calm when talking about the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 I would advise you to contact K9. I had the exact same problem with my aussie just prior to her coming into season at 9mths. Apparently she was going through a fear period and I did everything wrong by taking her out and socializing her and attempting to make her stand. 2 years later she is now so terrified of males she will wet herself if I try make her stand and she is retired from the show ring. She was a happy outgoing girl prior to this. If I could go back I would spend the money and not muck round by myself until it was too late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 (edited) I agree with cowanbree. Don't push it too much. Try and make the interaction positive. My female aussie is more aloof than my older one. I suspect it is a joint thing of a new home and possibly hormones starting to kick i. (she is 6mths). All i'm doing is reinforcing that people are good and generally people = food & nice gentle pats. Obviously she doesn't show the same response as Divani . I get people in the house to feed her and pat her chest only. It seems to be working really well and she has gained a lot of confidence. I'd contact someone to help you though ETA - she also shows and Kinta has absolutely no problems, male or otherwise of people examining her. Edited January 29, 2007 by leopuppy04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 I had a fancy dress party at my house on weekend and there was a man dressed up as a nun that she barked at and carried on for ages. Eventually she realised that he is no threat, actually quite friendly and was all over him, but that took half an hour or so and few pieces of ham. I dont push her in normal life interactions and she makes her own decisions about going towards people. But it isnt a luxury I have in the show ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Myzska do you have some male friends that can help you in that context? Perhaps you set her up and have a male walk past her, close, but not touching - C&T that. Then gradually work up until they can give her a full body exam?? Perhaps that will help you? I'd do the same in the street too. IF she sees a male and doesn't react, reward her etc. My apologies if i'm stating the obvious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangerineDream Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Myzska, How does she react to Flames Daddy - is she ok with blonde men like him and not with dark haired men possibly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 (edited) We have no problems with man she has met before (including FD - in fact she loves him and cant get enough of him) My OH has darkish hair. She isnt really happy about big clothing and hats. I went for a walk along Brighton beach a while ago and there was an arabic woman wearing full burka and Divani cetainly didnt like that outfit. Setting up scenarios with friends would possibly reinforce to her that man are ok, but the problem is with people she doesnt know. She is happy to sit on friends lap, she gets petted by my friends she licks their faces and acts normal with those she met and realised they are OK. Last night I went for a walk on the golf course and there is couple of guys that play often there and I had seen few times before. She run towards one of them herself and was very happy to meet him, but wouldnt let him touch her. Id say she has seen him (just seen and was in close proximity) before maybe 3 times. I gave him food to give to her, which she happily took and let him pet her head, but nothing beyond. It was her own decision. A big man in a black suit wearing a hat in the show ring and I might as well go straight home. In fact I had for now only entered shows that have female judges. Edited January 30, 2007 by myszka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 can you talk to judges at shows/obed trials dressed that way and start with them simply patting her - perhaps after judging has finished or something? I understand the complications - its all about context isn't it. My aussie does the same thing occasionally - run up and then decide "nope, you can't touch"... everyone she has met more than once she is all over them. Perhaps even 'encourage' (ie: no assertion) her over to the male person and ask him to pat her on the chest only. Tell her how good she is/feed her when she accepts the touch - again, pats by strange men = good things. Perhaps that will help also? Sorry I can't be of more help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 At the last show I got about 10 females to examine her than I went to a male and of course she wouldnt let the guy pet her. I stood with her next to him or a while and she let him pet her later. This is what I mean, she is OK with time. The problem is I DONT have time in the ring. so I guess the questions is - do I stand her hold her tight and force her to accept the petting? Or is that a bad idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 (edited) so I guess the questions is - do I stand her hold her tight and force her to accept the petting? Or is that a bad idea? I think it depends on the dog. I don't *force* my dog to interact, but by being a little more assertive (ie: telling her she is being silly and guiding her over to say hello) seems to have helped her some. But then for other dogs (like cowanbree) it can break the dog and they'll never be the same. Do what your gut tells you and remember to always read what your dog is saying. Edited January 30, 2007 by leopuppy04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I made my dog stand and basically did everything you have put in your e-mail and it made her 100 times worse. She is now male aggressive and will attack in the wrong situation. It started in the ring, I handled it totally wrong and it got a lot worse. I really would be talking to K9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 Thanks cowanbree - Im unable to talk to K9 but Ill be carefull as not to push her to far and not to create what you have. That is very sad and I certainly dont want that to happen. How did you force her? How did it go from bad to worse to shocking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 Ill also add that she has just had her first season and has now finished. She was a lot worse when on heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 (edited) Myzska: This is what I mean, she is OK with time. The problem is I DONT have time in the ring. Myzska I know you wouldn't try and solve an obedience training issue in the competition ring and the same applies to the show ring. Taking some time out from showing to fix this NOW will reap rewards down the track. A friend of mine had a similar issue. She set herself up near the club house at our obedience club and got every bloke she could find (who was dog savvy) to approach, talk to her, treat the dog and move away. She built up from there to handling, treating the dog and moving away. It was a slow proces that took some weeks but the result was a dog that was tolerant of being handled by men. Rush her now during her second fear imprint period and the issue will be life long. Edited January 30, 2007 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 As I said - I have on purpose entered only shows with female judges, I dont want her to go in the ring and have a bad exerience. Im off to the club now weekly, unfortunatelly like at any dog sport there are 90% females there, but hopefully Kaviks OH will be there tonight :nahnah: (will he Kavik?) and we can get him to help out. Im not rushing her at all, we have plenty of time. Im perhaps asking how far should my "help" in making a decision be. Lets say she is on lead and goes behind me, do I get her to heel or just let her sit there until she decides she wants to investigate the person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Myzska: Im perhaps asking how far should my "help" in making a decision be. Lets say she is on lead and goes behind me, do I get her to heel or just let her sit there until she decides she wants to investigate the person? I wouldn't be forcing anything but I would be working on decreasing the 'threat' from the stanger by increasing his attractiveness with food. She will take her cues from you so relax, just chat and pretty much let her be. You could even click any sign of interest she shows in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 Thanks poodlefan, Ill try tonight with a male if Ill find one to help me. Why cant she do for me all the time?I mean she was a bit worried there for a sec as well and looked at the person, but I wouldnt want anything more than this sort of behaviour. This video was taken some months ago btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Myzska: Thanks poodlefan, Ill try tonight with a male if Ill find one to help me. Show a bit of leg and some cleavage and they'll be lining up to help. :nahnah: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 My OH will be there, the tricky part will be getting him out of the car :nahnah: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 (edited) poodlefan - yes at least I dont have any probs asking for help Might have to get some mosquito repellant out and spray myself tip to toe tonight, otherwise Ill get eaten alive my bugs :nahnah: Seriously - I have always given food to the guys and she would go to the person take the food and be happy but wouldnt let them touch her. If she took the food and I made the person hide the food in the pockets she would raid the pocket and avoid petting. She just doesnt like people wipeing their dirty hands in her fur. Kavik - may I ask you to warm him up to the idea of helping someone? :p Edited January 30, 2007 by myszka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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