Help! Out Of Control German Shepherd

[Bullygirl]

Firstly, this is my first German Shepherd, our family has only ever had English Bull Terriers which were show dogs and perfectly behaved, calm, sweet etc. So, I'm a novice to a different breed. BIG MISTAKE!

My husband has had 3 German Shepherds in his family over his 30 years but were owned by his parents so he didn't really have a lot to do with the training of them etc.

Our dog, Jasper, is a pedigree (we have his papers) but is not going to be shown or used to breed with, he is just a family pet. He is 17 months old.

Before I get into what he is doing, we have taken him to the Vet and asked if we should de-sex him to calm him down. We were told no as it will make no difference to such a highly strung dog. Aaagghhh.

This is what he does...Please remember my husband and I are both shift workers full time but when we are not here, my Mother is here with my daughter. She can't control him either.

He barks, NON STOP, its unbelievable. He barks at wind, a car driving past the front yard, the people next door going into their yards to water their lawn. They can't even put their washing on the line without having Japser bark at them non stop.

So, we chained him up each time he barked, hoping to teach him a lesson. We would let him off when he was good. Nup, hasn't worked in 17 months and it's done regulary. He barks on the chain!

So, we muzzle him when he barks and take it off when he stops making noise. He is crazy, he lets us put the muzzle on, stays quiet for about 5 minutes, then as soon as we are about to take it off, he does this horrendous half bark, half howl thing from under the muzzle. It's actually just as loud as his bark!

So, we lock him in the laundry. He barks the laundry down. Jumps on the walls, scratches the doors down, rips the wood off the doors, chews the cupboards in the laundry, jumps on top of the washing machine and looks out the laundry window barking. Chews the laundry window! So, we muzzle him in the laundry... viscious cycle. He does the hideous bark/howl with the muzzle on in the laundry.

So, we are literally awake and up out of bed every single hour at the least every single night checking out why he is barking. We have never found a reason, there has never been a person in our yard, etc. We are losing the plot as we have a baby due in about 3 weeks and already getting no sleep!

He rips every single thing up in the yard. He is even chewing the house! He is literally ripping the cladding off the house, and chewing the metal up. I had my car in the back yard one day under a car port cleaning it. I came inside to have lunch. When I returned to my car he had ripped the front number plate off the car and had chewed it up!

He pulls washing off the line. Every single day. He has to be chained up whilst washing is on the line or we have to sit out the back watching him.

He chews up every hose we own. We have to take the hose in and out of our house each day to water the plants. Very inconvenient.

He literally jumps on our glass sliding doors the whole day long trying to get inside or get our attention. It sounds like the whole house is going to fall down. We can't be outside with the bloody dog all day and the minute we go inside, he starts jumping on the glass doors.

Now, he does get walked each day but only once as we are full time workers with a 3 year old, another old dog that has to be walked seperate as we can't walk the two of them together (because of Jasper). We have 2 horses also. Oh, our yard is HUGE too. He is not in a small yard, we are in the country.

He used to be great to walk, he would walk beside us, not pull and never have to be checked on the chain. Not anymore. He has started pulling and no matter how much we check him, give him treats for being good, he is now ripping our arms off each walk and just will not listen. Walking him used to be a nice part of the day. Not anymore.

He jumps all over our old Bull Terrier, who is 12 and in her last days unfortunately. She has heart failure and dementia and is being medicated heavily. She yelps obviously when he jumps on her, he really hurts her, so they have to be seperated. She stays inside or in the laundry and gets let out regulary to wee etc. It is becoming a horrendous chore as she can't even walk around her own yard at her leisure as Jasper has to be chained up or locked inside the laundry whilst we let her out. He will then 'eat' the laundry and bark the whole neighbourhood down if he is chained up trying to get to her.

He jumps on us, right up to our heads, everytime we go out the back. We tell him no, tell him to sit before we walk out (he can sit but only when he wants to) then as soon as we are out, he jumps on us. Not good when I'm 35 weeks pregnant. Not good either when my 3 year old DD can't be near him as he pushes her over.

We are really, honestly, at our wits end. It has gotten to the point where I cry when I look at him. I am starting to hate him and that is not the way I want to be with a family pet. I've never been without a dog, I love dogs so much, but I really can't cope with him.

Oh yeah, we are in very rural remote NSW. We have no kennel clubs nearby, no training nearby. We got him in Melbourne and the breeders are 5 hours away. We would be about 3 hours each way to the nearest kennel club.

He started very basic obedience training ourselves at about 4 - 6 months. He does sit, stay, come, walk on lead, but, only when he feels like it. He has been the same the whole 17 months of his life.

I have taken every dog I've owned to professional obedience training but now we have moved to a rural area, there is no one around. I'm doing everything the same as I've done with my other dogs, I just can't seem to get through this GSD's thick skull.

Some days when I'm trying to train him in the yard, he will sit first time and everytime, stay for 5 minutes, walk on the lead like an angel, then the next day, all hell breaks loose and he wont come when called, won't sit, jumps around like he has ants biting him.

The only thing he does all the time is shake hands! He likes doing that!

He accidently got out of the yard once when we were moving the car into the yard. He was chained up as we knew he would run out. He literally snapped his collar (he is now on a metal choker when chained up because of that) and he ran out the front. He kept running up the street, all over the road, totally ignoring us calling. He was gone for about an hour and we ended up finding him a few house up, curled up in a ball with a cat hissing at him. It was the funniest thing I've seen! He was terrified of the cat!

I really have no idea what to do with him. I wish I was closer to training! He has been 'trained' by us every day for about 10 to 20 minutes but nothing seems to work if he doesn't want it to!

We have tried the water spray in a bottle. He LOVES water. He thought it was the best thing ever. So, I put a tiny bit of citronella in the water bottle and sprayed his legs with it when he was barking or jumping on the old dog. He tried to eat the water stream so I stopped doing that fearing he might get sick.

He has had a citronella anti bark collar which did nothing. He just put his head down trying to look at what was spraying him in the neck and kept barking. He was barking with a whole mist of citronella around his head, sneezing, coughing and still kept going. We used that collar for a couple of months and it did absolutely nothing.

So, we got one of those ultrasonic collars. The one that has the high pitched noises that only dogs can hear. It only seemed to affect our old dog, who is almost deaf! She would prick her ears up each time it went off! But, the GSD, he didn't care. He kept barking... and barking... and barking...

We do praise him when he is being quiet. We go out and play a game with him when he is being quiet like ball or tug o war. We also let him come inside and 'visit' when he is being quiet. He is very good for about 2 minutes inside, then its like something takes over him and he jumps all over the lounges, runs through the house, picks up toys, shoes etc steals them!

We put chilli all over the house and on my Daughters swing set as he was eating the plastic bits on it. He still ate the foot pegs off her swing set and the plastic seats even with chilli powder on them. We put curry all over everything then and he absolutely loved that. He licked it all off. Then ate the plastics.

Is there any hope? Is there anyone out there who knows how to get into the head of a German Shepherd? He has cost us a lot in purchase price, training collars etc and I'm not the type of person who gets a dog then gives it away or puts it down because its not working out. I just thought after 17 months he might calm down or get better or finally obey us! Nope!

Are there any training places where we could send him? I only ask that as a last resort as we have no training nearby and the only way I can see him being trained is to send him away as we are very remote.

Please help!

[OMD²]

crikey!!

I can't help you sorry.. But I would go to a trainer if it was me..

Also our trainer told me not to play tug of war.. because the dog then thinks it can beat you (stand over you).. Don't know if that's really true or not.. but we don't do it just incase

Oscar is a totally different doggie since we went to a trainer for 30 mins on our first visit.. He was begining to think he was king of the house..

Just little stuff has helped us.. ie; making sure he see's us take his toys away... and allow him to play with another..

That's helped with him not thinking everything on the floor is his.. eg; shoes...

Good luck

edit:spelling

Edited January 27, 2007 by Oscar

[persephone]

Fast Reply?

Oh dear.

You need to contact a professional behaviourist urgently. I know and understand remoteness......but thru email or phone there must be someone with whom you can talk.

Your situation sounds very uncomfortable for everyone!!

[Bullygirl]

Persephone, I know we need a trainer desperately! There are no trainers anywhere near us. I would have to drive 3 hours each way to get to the nearest one! I don't know of any I can just call up or email for advice.

Oscar, thanks for the reply, I only play tug o war with Jasper because I was told by last dog trainer it was ok so long as I win the game. I always make him let go of the rope and then I take it away inside with me. I was told if he gets it then he has won. I don't let that happen. He doesn't have an ounce of aggressive behaviour in his body, with us or other animals but he does seem to dominate when he jumps on us and totally ignores every command!

I dunno! I can't win with this dog!

[MrsD]

The poor dog is BORED SHITLESS!!!!!!!!!

A German Sherperd is a WORKING breed & you have him locked up in a laundry, tied on a chain (by a check chain too, god help the poor dog ) & left in a back yard 24 hrs a day 7 days a week with 10 mins training a day - what do you EXPECT him to do?

This thread makes me want to cry :laugh: .

[ish]

The poor dog is BORED SHITLESS!!!!!!!!!

A German Shepherd is a WORKING breed & you have him locked up in a laundry, tied on a chain (by a check chain too, god help the poor dog ) & left in a back yard 24 hrs a day 7 days a week with 10 mins training a day - what do you EXPECT him to do?

This thread makes me want to cry :laugh: .

Exactly my thoughts too

You NEED to get to a behaviourist, 5 hours drive away or not, for the dogs sake. Otherwise, desex him and rehome him and go back to a dog that doesn't require as much physical and mental stimulation.

[Kavik]

You certainly sound like you have your hands full!

For a start, you could try TOT (Triangle of Temptation) (I think pinned at top of this section?) and NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free).

This would help you to gain some control.

Is Jasper keen on food and treats? You said you play tug - is he keen on this or on balls?

You want to find out what motivates Jasper - what he really likes. Then you can get him to work for what he likes. I mainly use food with my guys because they are keen on food, it is easy to take with you and you can do a lot of repetitions.

Training sessions will help not only to gain control but also help tire Jasper out. Even if you don't have a lot of time, you can do a few short training sessions and this will help.

[Bullygirl]

He is not locked up or chained up all day at all! He is free to run around the yard. We are in a rural area, not a tiny yard. . He only gets locked up for a few minutes at a time WHEN he barks or gets put on the chain WHEN he barks and is then let off as a reward for being quiet. No amount of telling him NO for barking or saying BAH or any other command to stop barking has ever worked.

The longest he has ever been put in the laundry or on the chain would be about 5 minutes. I hate dogs being locked up or chained up but I was told it might work, so I tried it. It didn't work. That is why I am HERE ASKING FOR HELP!

He is certainly not left in a back yard, he is walked EVERY DAY down to the river and reserve, let off to run and swim whilst there.

I'm no dog trainer, hence why I asked for help. I can only go off what I've been told to do by others. I was told at obedience school that 10 - 20 minutes training a day was what you do? What am I supposed to do?

I cant help having to work, neither can my husband. Does that mean we can't own a dog because we have to go to work?

He is NEVER home alone as my Mother lives with us too. She spends as much time with him as she can whilst running after a 3 year old.

I really don't need criticism when I'm trying to do my best. I've done a lot more with this dog than most would do. At least he is not locked up in a tiny run or something all day and left alone.

[Kavik]

I think what is more impotant is what and how you are training rather than how long etc. Same with exercise.

What does a typical training session consist of? What methods and rewards are you using? What are your standards?

TOT and NILIF do not take a lot of time per day and you get some good focus

For example, you can have Jasper sit for everything he likes. Sit to come in the house, out of the house, to get in the car, to get his collar on for the walk, to start walk, etc. Nothing happens until he sits, and only gets to go when you say so.

[PAX]

Maybe if you said what area you were in some one could be of more help.

[squeak]

Just throwing out some thoughts here....

Training tires a dog out mentally. I can walk my dog for an hour and she could go all day. I train her in a training class for 30 mins and she is literally stuffed for the rest of the day (admittedly I have a "low" trainability breed)

When he's in the backyard by himself, how about kongs, big meaty bones (like chicken backs and stuff and cut back his normal meals) or a "home alone" toy (www.aussiedog.com.au).

Also, you say he does things only when he wants to - this is unacceptable. If you give him a command, expect him to comply, otherwise you must be prepared to follow through and make him comply. Otherwise you are only teaching him that it is okay to ignore you.

[MrsD]

I cant help having to work, neither can my husband. Does that mean we can't own a dog because we have to go to work?

You have chosen a breed which (especially at that age) needs an enourmous amount of attention as well as physical & mental stimulation. You need to be working his mind as well as his muscles & you arent doing it. If you cant give him more than what you are giving him now (& I cant see that happening with a new baby on the way) I agree with Imashephead - desex him (which definitely should be done whatever happens to him) & rehome him to someone who can commit to the time needed by the dog & find a breed more suited to you & your situation.

Im sorry if I sound harsh, but I have owned 3 GSD's & I cant bear to see intelligent animals ignored & then blamed for being what they were bred to be - a working dog .

[Bullygirl]

Kavik,

We have been using food rewards. We spend 10- 20 minutes daily actually trying to train him (remember we are not professionals and have only been to obedience schools with other dogs in the past, when we weren't rural)! Then, he goes for a walk, half hour to the river and reserve, about half an hour swimming and running around, then about half an hour back home. This used to be a lovely part of the day but now he has started to pull (after never doing it). I use a check chain and have been 'checking' and 'releasing' but he keeps pulling. He used to walk right beside me and has never pulled even once before.

Like I said before, he will come, sit, stay, drop and shake hands BUT only if he has absolutely NO distraction or wants to. Some days I can have food in my hand (He likes liver treats) and call him and he will just look at me and totally ignore me. Some days he will do everything I ask.

He loves his ball too... but only gets that when we are actually playing with him or rewarding him for NOT barking. He doesn't have it in the yard with him all day. This is probably wrong too. I don't know. I've never owned a GSD before.

[Tonymc]

Bullygirl, I say this to help you not attack in any way.From where I am sitting it seems like you need to evaluate your Leadership.Seems like the Dogs has the Idea he is Leader.This of course tells him he has to protect you all and take charge.

Bullygirl,there is some good and informative material out there on Pack Leadership and so forth.Do a Google on Dog Leadership,Cesar Milan,Kevin Rebane,Jan Fennel.

Bullygirl,if you Pm me a Postal Address I will send you a Copy of Cesar Milan"s Book as it may help you. Tony

[Bullygirl]

Tonymc, googling now.. thanks heaps!

I agree, he thinks he is the leader...

[Jibba]

Also when this dog barks he gets rewarded with human contact, so he will continue this behaviour. If he barks he gets yelled at or chained or muzzled or whatever it is that you to try make him stop, so the behaviour will never go away.

I too agree he needs more stimulation, mentally and physically, a g shep of which i used to own, needs a minimum of 5k's walking a day and when trainers say 5 to 10 mins training that is not once a day, that is at a time, he may need 10, 5 min training sessions a day.

[Tonymc]

Bullygirl,exactly thats the core of the problem. Tony

[Bullygirl]

Thanks for the nice replys! I have googled and found some interesting articles on dog behaviour etc as suggested by Tonymc.

I will read up tonight and start tomorrow with a new training regime!

As for now, gotta go, its time for the daily walk!

Thanks again!

[Dogsfevr]

Sounds like your tyipcal teenage male GSD.Desexing can make a big difference even now.It sounds like he was a gem as a baby maybe the training & quality time took a backseat & now the dog is fighting for attention.Some dogs thrive on being told off because they get a form of attention.

Have you contacted the breeder & asked there advice or dsicussed the issues your having??If so what did they say.

I do agree with others though its time to make the big decisions you either need to put yourself out more to help make your dog a great pet for the next 12 yrs or put up with the problems or seek the breeders help in rehoming,some breeders will take them back.

I gather this dog isnt allowed in the house??

He sounds like a very frustrated dog competing for attention & leadership

[Erny]

Definately leadership is the core of the problem, as Tonymc has suggested. And it sounds as though this has been the core of the problem for quite some time .... but now the behaviour is escalating and now baby is almost here, the severity of the problem has been brought into focus.

BG - you ask if there is any hope. Obviously I haven't seen this dog. But even though your post sprouts a myriad of problems, I believe there is hope - perhaps quite a bit of hope. Are you and your OH prepared to put in the hard yards to turn this around?

As the dog is out of control at the moment, please ensure he is kept away from baby when baby arrives. If you put things into place immediately (or as immediately as you can) regarding leadership (and remain very clear, strict and consistent with it) you should find the edge coming off some of the behaviours he's exhibiting.

I wish we were closer - I'd love to help sort through this mish mash of behaviour and causes for it. (The majority cause being lack of leadership, as aforesaid. You now have learnt behaviour to deal with as well, once leadership is in place.) I would strongly recommend you take a day to see Steve (K9 Force). It will be well worth your while. There is so much more value and ground gained by consulting one-on-one (on both the behaviourist's part and yours) than in trying via the internet.