Training In New Locations

[Kavik]

I want to obedience trial Diesel this year. The instructors at my club are telling me to go for it! While it's great that they have such faith in us, we do have a problem to overcome first.

Diesel works really well in class. Great eye contact and attention in heeling. Need some work on stays. He is focussed but relaxed. But our problem is that when I take him to a new location, he just loses his brain! He gets really excited and won't work well. And if my OH is there, he just want to be with my OH and it is hard to get him to focus.

So far I have been doing simple exercises like come fores and eye contact, and occasionally finishes (he loves to do those) to get his attention.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to get him more comfortable working in new locations?

[leopuppy04]

I'd just keep taking him to different places and working on focus, nothing else. When he is getting really good at that, start asking for a bit of work. Raise the bar slowly etc. I'd even take him to a few trials and work on focus etc.

[MrsD]

Does anyone have any ideas on how to get him more comfortable working in new locations?

Take him to different places more often & do simple exercises - then they wont be so exciting for him .

ETA - yeah, what leopuppy said .

Edited January 24, 2007 by MrsD

[Working_Setters]

What the others said. I think as humans we appreciate the difficulty of learning a new exercise, so we patiently break it down into achievable steps, the dog has success and all is well. What we have more trouble with (since it doesn't apply to so much to us as a species) is accepting the difficulty dogs have transferring skills learnt in one setting to new locations. When you go to a new location (and you should do so regularly), go back to basics and slowly build up, have success and enjoy it.

[Kavik]

Thanks guys

Simple exercises are the way to go then

It is frustrating though, because the difference in his behaviour is quite large. He is such a laid back dog in familiar surroundings and such a loon in new places. I think some of it is stress as well as excitement.

[Sayreovi]

I have found that with my dogs too, but that is really my fault i get nervous when we go to new places.

Once i get on top of it they work fine, are you nervous or worried when at new places?

[sidoney]

You can also teach him to handle distractions/stress in your own environment, by deliberately adding them and progressing from mild to very distracting, while asking the dog to repeat simple, well known behaviours. Learned this at a Kay Laurence (UK) seminar. Her opinion was that once a dog learned to manage stress in a few situations it was then able to generalise it in more situations.

If you want to call me I'll describe the exercises in detail.

[Kavik]

Thanks sidoney

I might give you a call later

[country joe]

This might be a bit simplistic but.

I have used simple healing exercises lots of left and right about turns. figure eights

Lots of quick stops and heel fast.

I have done all this at a faster pace than normal.

This has forced the dog to have greater focus on me than what is going on around.

I made sure this was fun for the dog and myself.

Its the opposite of what I have seen some people do when they get into distraction trouble.

They have tended to slow everything down. The dogs reaction controling the situation.

Country Joe.

[Sardog]

Hi kavik,

I guess you could refer to K9's "neutralisation" programme/solution he has detailed here often.

The sardog has to work with a lot of distraction and the neutralisation was done from the beginning as pups and the results say it all.

Do you remember when you were at our workshop at K9's back in April and those dogs were racing up and down the fence while River was searching? He didn't take any notice of them at all.

..... and I must admit I MUST HAVE BEEN NEUTRALISAED AS WELL as I didn't even see them as well

Julie

[Kavik]

Hi Sardog

Your dogs were great! Unfortunately Diesel is 3, so a bit late for neutralisation I think

Hi country joe

Faster pace is great for attention getting, and works really well when he is lagging and being lazy, however sometimes when out and about it is not just normal distractability. He really gets quite worked up sometimes and bounces around. It is worst when my OH is there and my OH doesn't do anything with him except pat him.

[Working_Setters]

You can also teach him to handle distractions/stress in your own environment, by deliberately adding them and progressing from mild to very distracting, while asking the dog to repeat simple, well known behaviours. Learned this at a Kay Laurence (UK) seminar. Her opinion was that once a dog learned to manage stress in a few situations it was then able to generalise it in more situations.

If you want to call me I'll describe the exercises in detail.

Much as Koehler is a dirty word with many today prefering more positive methods, this was very much a corner stone of his training methods, and in my limited experience (following his FF program) I've found it very effective.

[sidoney]

That is interesting, although Kay Laurence is in a very different context, being a clicker trainer and thus positive.

[Vickie]

I don't do obedience, as you know, so you can take this with a grain of salt, LOL, but I certainly train & run my dogs in a lot of different environments.

I think you need to address the issue with the OH first, because I predict that it is all linked in together & if you can solve that, other things will fall into place. Is it possible that he is using your OH as avoidance to the exercise? What happens if you train in your backyard & your OH is there watching? Compared to a familiar training ground, compared to an unfamiliar one?

What if OH is sitting right in the middle of your training session at home & you & Diesel have to literally work around him?

Personally I would work on upping the ante (as others have suggested) in a familiar environment before asking for too much elsewhere and then take it slowly from there. I don't think "simple" exercises should be the key when you start going to a new location, I think it should be the most "enjoyable" exercises for him...often they will be different to the simple ones.

Another thought...

If you asked Diesel what he expected would happen when he goes to a new place. what would his response be? For most dogs, it would go something like this: "Usually when we go to a ground/park, it is for a an offleash run, I get to investigate, sniff, run like a loony & play with other dogs".

I think it's similar in agility, the people I see who have distracted dogs in training are often the ones who let their dogs play on the ground before & after the class. I think that's kind of confusing for some dogs.

I also think it depends on their level of motivation for what they are doing. It is much easier in agility than obedience because I think most dogs are generally more likely to be rewarded by doing the agility, often so much so that they hardly even notice they are in a new location.

JMO

Vickie

[Working_Setters]

I also think it depends on their level of motivation for what they are doing. It is much easier in agility than obedience because I think most dogs are generally more likely to be rewarded by doing the agility, often so much so that they hardly even notice they are in a new location.

Agree about the motivation bring focus (exclusion of surrounding). I don't do agility, so prehaps I'm off base here, but isn't it the case that agility courses are set up in much the same way wherever you go, weave poles always to the left of the tunnel or whatever. In which case, the layout of the course is familar to the dog, even if the location is not, and that familarity helps the dog with it's routine. Just a thought, like I say, I'm clueless about agility.

[Working_Setters]

Sidoney - I understand what you're saying and I'm not familar with Kay L, so this is just a general comment. I find it interesting that people creating stressful situations for dogs consider themselves positive trainers b/c they use a clicker. Perhaps, non-physical or non-contact trainers would be a better description.

[Vickie]

I also think it depends on their level of motivation for what they are doing. It is much easier in agility than obedience because I think most dogs are generally more likely to be rewarded by doing the agility, often so much so that they hardly even notice they are in a new location.

Agree about the motivation bring focus (exclusion of surrounding). I don't do agility, so prehaps I'm off base here, but isn't it the case that agility courses are set up in much the same way wherever you go, weave poles always to the left of the tunnel or whatever. In which case, the layout of the course is familar to the dog, even if the location is not, and that familarity helps the dog with it's routine. Just a thought, like I say, I'm clueless about agility.

No the courses are always completely different everywhere you train & trial. The dogs shouldn't need familiarity with the course nor the location, their sole objective is to get direction from you. There is no time to look around nor is there any interest in that, they are 100% focussed on where your shoulders are pointing & which obstacle you are telling them will be next. That's the plan anyway

I do however think it works the other way...my dogs know they are going to do agility when we go to certain places, they know by what I pack in the car, by what I am wearing & by seeing the equipment on the ground. I have a friend who brings one of her dogs to my house. Since that dog assocaiates my house & me with agility, she will immediately go to my backyard & find a piece of equipment to do a contact on. If there is nothing available...she uses my childrens slippery dip. She will wait there...up to 40 mins if we let her...just anticipating a command .

Edited January 25, 2007 by Vickie

[Working_Setters]

I also think it depends on their level of motivation for what they are doing. It is much easier in agility than obedience because I think most dogs are generally more likely to be rewarded by doing the agility, often so much so that they hardly even notice they are in a new location.

Agree about the motivation bring focus (exclusion of surrounding). I don't do agility, so prehaps I'm off base here, but isn't it the case that agility courses are set up in much the same way wherever you go, weave poles always to the left of the tunnel or whatever. In which case, the layout of the course is familar to the dog, even if the location is not, and that familarity helps the dog with it's routine. Just a thought, like I say, I'm clueless about agility.

No the courses are always completely different everywhere you train & trial. The dogs shouldn't need familiarity with the course nor the location, their sole objective is to get direction from you. There is no time to look around nor is there any interest in that, they are 100% focussed on where your shoulders are pointing & which obstacle you are telling them will be next. That's the plan anyway

Ahhhhhh, that's cool. I'd always assumed that once a dog was "agility trained" it would be pretty well running on autopilot, that is the dog is focused on the course, knowning which obstacles to do and in what order, but now I see the dog and handler are very much a team and the dog would need to be much more focused on the handler than I previously realised. Thanks Vic

Edited January 25, 2007 by Working_Setters

[dogdude]

The trick is to thoroughly proof each exercise as part of your dog fully understanding each exercise. Once the dog has learnt what is expected, you would proof new locations before you move on.

Obedience clubs seem to avoid the level of proofing required at trial level, but that is what sets a trialling dog appart from a regular club dog. As an unimformed newby years ago, I made the same mistake, but got around it by training in a new location every night for 3 months before my first trial. I even took him to the local footy game to do healing patterns in a crowd.

When you have that level of attention, you are ready to trial. (But not before IMO)

I will always return to home base to teach a new exercise, but my regular training is never in one place these days.

[Arya]

Really great suggestions from everyone!!! This is a good topic Here is something that you may find useful. I see you are in Sydney. I am in Melbourne and what we have here at KCC Park is the VCA obedience, tracking and endurance committee have some obedience run through nights during daylight savings. You have to book in here but it is REALLY good for proofing your dog in a trial-type situation. The judges and other experienced OTEC people put you through the ring like a trial and you get to talk to the dog, make corrections, give encouragement etc. and get advice. Does NSW have something like that running for triallers? It would be worth investigating if you are considering trialling. I hope you can find something like that as it is not like regular obedience club training and is of immense help, even if just to see where you are up to and what you need to work on with focus etc.

Finally, don't underestimate the stress level that builds up in your dog in unusual situations. Watch your dog and take him aside every so often for a game of tug or a bit of ball or something fun well away from the other dogs. Release the stress then return for more work and focussing. This also helped me with my dog in trial situation and she was originally a looney tunes in unfamiliar situations