Giant Breed Pups & Small Kids?

[Rascalmyshadow]

I know what you are going through we wen't through the same thing with our standard puppy recently, within days of arriving he would mouth and jump all over my son (a shock to me because none of my others were or are like that) and chase him as soon as he ran but we put him in his place straight away.

It took about 4 weeks to stop the behaviour all together, at first we taught him it was unnaceptable, then if he behaved innapropriately I would would scruff him and give him a light shake and put him in his crate for 10mins (locking him outside was no good because he still had too much freedom so not a great punisnment) in a position where he could see everyone else still playing.

Now at 5 months old he is very gentle with my son and does not bite, chase or jump on him. If he does get a bit silly with guests or the small dogs all we have to do is say Uhh Uhh and he stops immediately.

You seriously need to do something with your dog now apart from him being so big puppy teeth are so sharp they can do a lot of damage very easily, if he is drawing blood you are not over reacting even if it's not intentional.

[saintlysusan]

Well todays a new day and after talking to my hubby about this last night, I think I have actually made it worse by not going to extremes before now. Hubby thinks I am too soft on him, apparantly I allways say "dont hurt him" ...

I didnt realise, so now it will be different, (not that I want people to hurt him though) but in being nice to him so he dosent become scared of me or anyone, I think I have created a dominance problem with the kids. I would allways just take him away from the situation and not actually go nuts (lol) and he tried to take my tea towel last night and I flipped out and he let go!

I will insist on calmness if he wants to interact with the kids like in the picture, and a few strongly worded commands and he was very well behaved with them when I took all the pics so I was quiet suprised. He even obeys simple things they ask him like roll over or paw ( shake) He loves the kids so it would be a real shame if they couldnt interact, he is allways watching them and licking them so I cant figure out why he bites then also but it wont be acceptable anymore.

Hes a work in progress, thanks for the advice everyone, just for the record he is a wonderful dog, perfect in every other way!

I know what you are going through we wen't through the same thing with our standard puppy recently, within days of arriving he would mouth and jump all over my son (a shock to me because none of my others were or are like that) and chase him as soon as he ran but we put him in his place straight away.

It took about 4 weeks to stop the behaviour all together, at first we taught him it was unnaceptable, then if he behaved innapropriately I would would scruff him and give him a light shake and put him in his crate for 10mins (locking him outside was no good because he still had too much freedom so not a great punisnment) in a position where he could see everyone else still playing.

Now at 5 months old he is very gentle with my son and does not bite, chase or jump on him. If he does get a bit silly with guests or the small dogs all we have to do is say Uhh Uhh and he stops immediately.

You seriously need to do something with your dog now apart from him being so big puppy teeth are so sharp they can do a lot of damage very easily, if he is drawing blood you are not over reacting even if it's not intentional.

[Nekhbet]

remember a dangerous dog doesnt have to fit the stereotype of a snarling, snapping, foaming out of control animal. Its all relative. A dog that draws blood and latches on to the point you have to physically intervene is dangerous. It is dangerous because the possibility of damage and getting into an out of control situation is very high. That is dangerous.

You dont have to hurt him, smack him etc. Just make a loud enough, short sharp noise so he knows you mean business. No one advocates you lay into the dog but getting a good scare once in a while is what he needs. Watch how pups and dogs interact with each other. My Malinois and my Bordeaux have very lound fights when she tells him off, or he physically pins her down (he's 30kg heavier) when she gets too much. They deal in a canine way but you dont want a dog to behave that way towards you. You dont want an adult St to think its acceptable to treat your children like another pup.

[Dogsfevr]

I think what you need to remember he is a dog,he needs to be treated like a dog & have key words use so a dog can understand.

You say "dont hurt him" but hes hurting your children & no matter what the breed that type of hurt just isnt accepted behaviour.

I would presume if one of your kids did something to harm one of your others you would take it lightly,lets face it a feral kid is no different to a feral child.

As you say he is smart & the reason he is even smarter is he nows where he stands with you & that is when things can go awfully wrong.

Some dogs are very mouthy , i have gundogs which are that way but at no point do they draw blood .

Dangerous can be a scary word but remember this dog would weigh more than your kids,he could shake the little ones around like a teddy bear & above all one day he may do it to one of there friends & there parents may not be so understanding.

You dont have to beat,bash or be cruel you just have to be more serious in your tone & your actions.Its important you get on top of the situation as your the one who is home at the crucial times.

[Doghouse]

Hi,

Have to agree with all the other DOLS. But small children are not the best communicators with animals and the frequencey of the sqeals just makes matters worse.

Time to get tough with doggie and really tough. He needs to get the message that it is not acceptable at all. Crate him or put him in the laundry of he bites/jumps, exclude him from the pack so to speak... he will get the message.

Our 5 year old got in all sorts of trouble with the puppy of all things yesterday morning when she sat down, the dog jumped on her and scratched her, she squealed and the whole thing escalated, to the point the puppy was hyperactive and scratching and 5yo in a matter of 30 seconds has lost a fair amount of skin off her back - to make matters worse the other pup (6mths) started to defend the child... straight to crates and bedroom for 5yo.

You will have to supervise more strongly..lol

[Benji's Mum]

Our 5 year old got in all sorts of trouble with the puppy of all things yesterday morning when she sat down, the dog jumped on her and scratched her..

I was taught with horses never to sit near them, always stay on your feet so you can jump away quickly if need be, so I tell my kids the same thing around dogs.

Because the ONLY time in 13 years that my GSD nearly bit a child was when he was lying down next to a sitting child and the child leant on his guts to push to stand up and he snapped up in the air next to her in pain.

[*Heidi*]

We have been luck enough to have 2 Saints in our lives,

Our first one we got when our first born was approx 8 months, we never had a bite problem with her and she got along great with him

Our 2nd one we got after Griffin passed away, our boys then were 2 and 10 years old, again she was never a biter, i think it all comes from early one, we never let the kids play tug a war with them when the Saints were little as I thought it might mean a nipping and the dogs might think it was OK, knowing how big they would get i wanted to lay the law down early.

Our current dog is not a Saint but she was a little nippy, we just did the high pitched squeal and as soon as she stopped ignore her, now our kids (now 12 & 4) could not do the high pitched squeal, or they did not want to but a deep Ahhhh like the mummy dog would do followed by ignoring her worked a treat, I am not sure now with Boris's age if that would work but it might be worth a try. And as others have said just keep an eye on him with the kids till he gets the message it is not OK, Hope you get onto the breeder and see what they say, I am sure Debbie will PM you the number soon,

Thanks for the updated photo, he is such a cutie

Edited January 19, 2007 by *Heidi*

[Doghouse]

Our 5 year old got in all sorts of trouble with the puppy of all things yesterday morning when she sat down, the dog jumped on her and scratched her..

I was taught with horses never to sit near them, always stay on your feet so you can jump away quickly if need be, so I tell my kids the same thing around dogs.

Because the ONLY time in 13 years that my GSD nearly bit a child was when he was lying down next to a sitting child and the child leant on his guts to push to stand up and he snapped up in the air next to her in pain.

Ah, clarrification here, dogs were supposed to be OUTSIDE. 5yo let puppy in house (with daddy away we are having defiant stage). Puppies are not to be in the house between sun up and bedtime... 5YO is not supposed to let puppies in without approval. That is why all three were disciplined... Children and puppies are ALWAYS supervised, even thou the 6MO is the most protective creature around around the 5YO. More so than her errant father.....

[saintlysusan]

Thanks to whoever it was that told my dogs breeder I was giving them a bad name by posting. I would never do that to them, infact I dont even recall mentioning the breeders prefix or anything! GUTLESS....

If i ever have a issue with them, I will be telling them in person or phone, I dont need to slag them out and I NEVER DID, Im "outspoken" remember!!

As ANY pet owner on here, I can post about my day to day troubles and ask for ideas,

How is that a reflection on anyone but myself if the problem lies with me and not them or bad breeding etc??

I never said it was a breeders fault at all, your just a trouble maker.

Im glad she saw it for what it was and she knows me well enough to know I dont mince my words, I call a spade a spade. STUPID.

[vanessa0305]

I know that everyone has said that the biting problem has nothing to do with him being a singleton but.....(dons flame proof suit). I though one of the reasons we leave puppies with their parents and litter mates longer is because they learn things like bite inhibition and good manners by playing with their litter mates. If he didn't have other pups to play with so he could gage when he was biting too hard, maybe he just didn't learn that his bite is hurting.

[Dogsfevr]

Because owners take on the same role & when the bite gets alot harder its generally when there going to there new homes & the new pack order is to be established.

Many people fall into the trap its cute,that fun game doesnt seem so fun anymore,its too small to tell off etc etc.

We have had single pups & there is no different in behaviour except they are more people orienated

[Sagittarian]

ST Bernards arnet dangerous, I think I over reacted abit.

Unfortunately, any creature with teeth can be dangerous, add to that a massive frame and often an inability to understand its strength (certainly mine are like that lol).

St Bernards are no different from any other dog - an individual can inflict considerable damage under the "wrong" circumstances.

Our children have never been at risk from our dogs. If a dog ever mouthed my child it would be the last time they considered doing so. Nipping is not acceptable.

Please get some professional advice to help guide you while Boris is still young and not so large and set in his habits that you really do need to separate him and the kids.

First point of call is always your breeder as you have done. But if for any reason you need more help, please either call a behaviourist, or take Debbi up on her kind offer.

It is not worth taking chances with your children.

Sags

[Cosmolo]

What kind of training has Boris had so far?

[vanessa0305]

Show dog, so they get their start from litter mates and that training is carried on by their human companion? I understand. Thanks, just wondered.

[Debbi]

If he didn't have other pups to play with so he could gage when he was biting too hard, maybe he just didn't learn that his bite is hurting

Hi,

Being a "singleton" pup is really not the issue here!

We have had a litter (more than one) where we have had 'nipping" puppies in the litter! And they were NOT singleton puppies. We chose where to put the puppy carefully and discussed fully how to deal with the situation from the onset. Saintlysusan simply needs some supportive guidance on how to deal with this issue, not criticism. Nor does she need (if this has happened) people criticising her to the breeder. She came to the forum for help.

Whilst I now don my flame retardant suit, we guage all our puppies for "dominance" issues from babies, if one knows how to do so, it really is quite easy, a "time out" area for Boris is essential in correcting this behaviour. Not the entire backyard, that is his play area.

Just a small area that he can be placed in, when he has behaved incorrectly, that he can consider his actions, and realise that if he does what he does he will get NO REACTION.

Then he needs to be let out supervised calmly. By saintlysusan or her husband, supervised, and controlled quietly and rewarded for his calm behaviour. Any sort of attention seeking nipping, which is exactly what this behaviour is with the children, which, by the way, Saints love, is to see him back in the time out area, so that he realises that it is unacceptable. Saints are overly intelligent dogs, most willingly to please their owners, on the basis that their owners are clear and decisive about what they show that they wish they want from their beloved pet, who is only to willingly to try to do. Unclear and indecisive instruction, leads for confusion for them.

This behaviour can be corrected, SAINTLYSUSAN, please, Boris wishes to please you, but he needs precise understanding of what behaviour you expect from him.

I am ever so happy to help you through this. I have a singleton puppy at present, who is so keen for my attention, that she will almost jump through hoops to show that her love for me is beyond all boundaries. It is just a matter of letting Boris know what is expected, what is acceptable and what is UNACCEPTABLE. For children it is harder, the puppy is almost if not as big as them, they automatically respond in certain ways, and Boris sees that as reaction.

He will be their best friend and protector for life, you will work through this!

Regards and my support

Debbi

[Heidley]

Such a generous offer there Debbi. It's great to see, as it can be harrowing at times with furkid parenting!

[Monah]

I need ideas.

My St Bernard Boris is getting older and I really thought he would stop trying to bite the kids by now but he hasnt.

He draws blood daily and no matter how well they say "no bite" or try to walk away or totally ignore him, he still does it.

I'm sure he thinks hes one of the kids and bosses them around. He was the only pup in litter and mostly hand raised also and I think thats made him spoilt or something, he sure is defiant!

He's very different with me than the kids/hubby and I usually have to rescue the kids (lol)

Any suggestions?

Although I agree completely with Poodlefan I can see you are attempting to solve the problem, just not effectively. Yes, bring in a trainer, they will teach you ALL how to deal with this and give you follow up advice. A local kennel club or vet should have a trainer they can tell you about. I too had a problem with this as my dog was also an only pup, practically hand raised much loved by the breeder and I got her at 12 weeks, a bit old to change problems quickly. She was a terrible play biter and drew blood. It took several weeks of loud, growly ARGH's, and tucking my hands under myself and ignoring her before the message got through. Giving her time out was a disaster as she nearly ate the door and walls when shut in. A squirt water bottle did the trick, even though she loves water. You cannot leave it up to the children to discipline Boris as he obviously sees himself as higher in the pack structure than they are. He must be taught at all times that he is the lowest member which means never eating first, never on beds or chairs, never in the door first, no lead pulling etc. becuse he is quickly taking advantage of the situation and it would be really sad if the outcome was not good both for him and you. Please get some professional assistance.XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXGood luck. How old are the kids? No bite is too long and slow to get out. The damage is done by then.