MonElite Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 myszka, Daegon is so bad he refused to eat anything for more than a week and then STILL wouldn't take anything yummy. He just doesn't care. Why do I find this hard to belive? 3-4 days of no food, he must get hungry........ have you actually tried not feeding him for few days? If what you say is true than Id do some health tests on him to see if there is nothing wrong with him. Is he low thyroid? What does he get excited about, that relates to you (not other dogs)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 thanks Vickie, I will certainly give it a go I never really accept the "but my dog doesn't like food" theory. Noah once went 5 days without food, purely through his stubborness. I just had to wait him out...then that was it. Just on this though...there is certainly something not quite normal about Daegon and food. I am also very stubborn and have waited him out and out and out and out. When he became so thin there were bones beginning to show I started force feeding. He will occasionally eat a meal on his own now, I do not think him not eating his dinner is due to him being stubborn. He also cannot hold his weight, anything gained is lost overnight. He will be having tests for this Does he get any correction at all? My mastiff sometimes does that but a good pop with the check chain for non compliance and he hits the deck. If the dog is going to be that stubborn, he gets one chance to comply before the correction comes along. No I do not correct him other than growling the drop command. I don't like correcting while teaching obedience as while Daegon is stubborn he is also sensitive to correction, verbal correction anyway. If this other method doesn't work I may have to start that physical correction because he definitely knows what I want, he is just refusing...and that's norrrty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 myszka, Daegon is so bad he refused to eat anything for more than a week and then STILL wouldn't take anything yummy. He just doesn't care. Why do I find this hard to belive? 3-4 days of no food, he must get hungry........ have you actually tried not feeding him for few days? If what you say is true than Id do some health tests on him to see if there is nothing wrong with him. Is he low thyroid? What does he get excited about, that relates to you (not other dogs)? Who knows why you find it hard to believe. I don't know what is wrong with Daegon, he is going in for tests on his thyroid as soon as I can afford it. With a current vet bill probably in the $600+ figures at the moment due to an emergency I cannot take him right now. I hope to get him there in a few weeks time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 thanks Vickie, I will certainly give it a go I just read your other posts. I wouldn't even attempt this until he is eating his meal when you put it down & after you have ruled out health issues. Is he still not eating properly? With Noah, I just put his food down each morning. If he hadn't eaten it in 15 minutes I said nothing & put it in the bin. After eating nothing at all for 5 days, on the 6th morning, he ate it as soon as I put it down & has done so ever since for the last 9 years. It's just the type of dog he is. I had a horse once, just like him, I had to wait her out on a few things as well & then she was fine from then on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 (edited) I find it hard to belive that the dog wont eat for a week and not be hungry, thats all. My dog with slightly low thyroid often refuses to eat and has always been on the skinny side. But if he doenst eat for 3 days on the 4th day he aint so fussy So what does Daegon get excited about? Edited January 16, 2007 by myszka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 (edited) I have tried that with Daegon, for quite some time...and he still never ate. I've tried feeding him with Kovu, didn't work either. I really have tried very hard. He will occasionally eat a meal on his own now but those times are few and far between. He will certainly be getting tests done Sorry I have to run to catch a bus now, will reply when I get back myszka. Don't worry, I was shocked when he still wouldn't eat after a week too Edited January 16, 2007 by shekhina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 He will occasionally eat a meal on his own now but those times are few and far between. So how does he eat each day? Do you literally hand feed him or force feed him? He looks very healthy in his pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsD Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 I don't like correcting while teaching obedience Daegon knows exactly what drop is, he's just stubborn. You arent teaching him the drop, he knows exactly what to do, the only thing you are teaching him is that he doesnt have to do as he's asked unless he wants to do it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 (edited) I just went and read some of your other posts about Daegon. I would not be using your other dog to get him to eat/play etc, I think it could be asking for trouble and may upset the balance between them. If the vet check/thyroid is clear, I would honestly be getting some help from a professional trainer to help change/fix up your relationship with him as I suspect that is a big part of his refusal to drop as well as his eating disorder. Or at the very least, research one method & really follow it through. Since you have been successful in teaching him many things in the past, I wonder if you have maybe been a little impatient with him & switched methods a bit too often? He is still a young dog and maybe it is all a bit much for him. What you see as stubborn may just be resigned confusion. I hope you take this the right way, Shek. It is so easy for so many of us to follow advice from an instuctor at our club and then the following week follow conflicting advice of a different instructor. It can only end in confusion for the dog & frustration for us. Sorry if I am on the wrong track & this is not the case. Edited January 16, 2007 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ons Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 does he generally do what you ask him to do? I was told that "down" was a very hard thing for a dominant dog to do but a very good thing to teach them. That's why I'm teaching Onslow, he may be a golden retreiver but he had me fooled for a long time until Steve from K9 sorted us out or I should say me I would guess that you probably would do TOT which worked miricles with Onsy, if not maybe that's worth trying because it may get him more interested in food - he has to work for it - and may get him listening to you more. Just my random thoughts, I am certainly far far far from being an expert. By the way Daegon is certainly a very very handsome dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pandii Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Hey Shek not that is much help but Dante wont drop either on the first command Sometimes I have to say it 3 times and then in a realy growly forceful voice She too knows what I want but she is just arrogant She is the same when it comes to sitting as well, she sinks her butt slowly but it doesnt make contact with the ground As I said doenst help you much bit I know where you are coming from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 (edited) Thank you everybody for your replies myszka, you asked what gets Daegon excited... sheep and horses he will also get excited when there is competition for the object he wants or if he's having a good day. Bad days are when he will just want to sleep and really not have a lot of energy. Vickie, of course I don't take it the wrong way! I did try quite a few different methods to teach Daegon drop, as you said, I was getting so many different opinions that I tried them all. I could see why he would be confused. It may be that, it may not. I don't have issues with him completing other commands, he is generally very good. Sometimes I will have to tell him to sit twice. ETA: about the feeding, yes sometimes it is force feeding, where I will have to put the food towards the back of his mouth...he will swallow it then. I do the TOT with both dogs for their dinner and while Daegon may eat a very small amount it is unusual for him to clean the bowl. He hasn't always been that way though. Edited January 16, 2007 by shekhina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 (edited) problem is that he now knows to ignore a normal drop. You have to growl seriously and even then he doesn it at his pace. walk him quickly. Give him the DROP command and if he stares at you correct him quickly downward. One chance. Dont teach your dog to not take you seriously. If he is sensitive enough to you, you wont need a hard correction just enough to tell him you mean business. I dont like verbal corrections when they are the command. You say DROP and he stares at you. You do nothing, maybe entice him with toys and food. Dog wins. Try harder - nothing - dog wins again. I dont pander to my dogs tanties if they dont listen they get corrected with check/prong, and if they do good they get a fabulous reward (i'm not a complete nazi ) but I need my dogs to work. I cant afford to have a dog that decides to listen to me sometimes or control his own obedience. A dog that doesnt drop is pushing your status in the pack or being an arse. Sit at my own pace ... I dont think so. Shek you need to teach that dog to eat faster. if TOT has turned your dog into one that questions your authority then dont bother. Give him 10 minutes, or as soon as he leaves hos bowl its gone as well as any attention. pandii same thing. Why the heck do give your dog 2 chances to ignore you??? DROP ... nothing CORRECT ... you will have so fast a drop your dog will leave skid marks. I have trained with rotties and quite a few find drop hard, they do it slowly. Like I said my mastiff too, he doesnt want to but he's learning that its not worth arguing with mum. Edited January 16, 2007 by Nekhbet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 Thanks nekhbet. The more I think about it the more I really do think he is doing it because he knows he can. I think the physical correction will have to be the way to go, I don't like it as he's sensitive to corrections, but he is totally disobeying me and that's simply not OK. Kovu and Daegon are so chalk and cheese, I wouldn't hesitate to physically correct Kovu, and I do, because he is such a hard dog and is not affected by corrections. He listens to them, but is not upset by them at all. Daegon is sensitive, so it's difficult to know what to do sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 (edited) Maybe Daegon isnt as sensitive as you think? Dont let emotional blackmail puppy eye looks make you feel guilty. Dont do it too hard, just hard enough to make him realise you mean business. Edited January 16, 2007 by Nekhbet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsD Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 problem is that he now knows to ignore a normal drop. You have to growl seriously and even then he doesn it at his pace.walk him quickly. Give him the DROP command and if he stares at you correct him quickly downward. One chance. Dont teach your dog to not take you seriously. If he is sensitive enough to you, you wont need a hard correction just enough to tell him you mean business. I dont like verbal corrections when they are the command. You say DROP and he stares at you. You do nothing, maybe entice him with toys and food. Dog wins. Try harder - nothing - dog wins again. I dont pander to my dogs tanties if they dont listen they get corrected with check/prong, and if they do good they get a fabulous reward (i'm not a complete nazi ) but I need my dogs to work. I cant afford to have a dog that decides to listen to me sometimes or control his own obedience. A dog that doesnt drop is pushing your status in the pack or being an arse. Sit at my own pace ... I dont think so. Shek you need to teach that dog to eat faster. if TOT has turned your dog into one that questions your authority then dont bother. Give him 10 minutes, or as soon as he leaves hos bowl its gone as well as any attention. pandii same thing. Why the heck do give your dog 2 chances to ignore you??? DROP ... nothing CORRECT ... you will have so fast a drop your dog will leave skid marks. I have trained with rotties and quite a few find drop hard, they do it slowly. Like I said my mastiff too, he doesnt want to but he's learning that its not worth arguing with mum. Give the girl a gold star . Shek, it's not a matter of whether he's sensitive to verbal corrections or not, he's obviously not cos you have to use a verbal correction just to get a response. Ask him once & if he doesnt do it, correct him & make him do it. As Nek has said, a dog that choses when he wants to be obedient & when he doesnt or which commands he will obey & which he wont is doing it because he thinks he can ignore you & that you arent as important as you like to think you are. That's not obedient, thats doing whatever he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 Oh yes, I know he can be a little shit. I have wanted to correct him but haven't as I've thought him rather sensitive to it. I will be physically correcting him from now on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PositiveDog Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Hi, I am very concerned that Daegon may have some medical issues because you have stated that he has not got any real drive. This is often an indicator of a medical problem. I would take Daegon to be checked out before resorting to some of the harsher techniques offered. At worse this will give you the confidence that Daegon is fit and healthy. Best of Luck PositiveDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 Thank you. I will be taking him to the vet as soon as I can. At the moment I have a cat in emergency surgery for the 5th time in a week, my bill is at $2,000. When I can save the consultation fee to take Daegon in he will be in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Nekhbet, I TOTALLY agree with you. Don't let him pull a swiftie on you with the drop thing. Still, the extreme reluctance to eat issue is something that I agree needs checked out by a vet. I worked as a vet nurse for many years and it does flag a bit of a warning. Blood tests, maybe thyroid function test? The vet will know once you dish out the history. We used to see huge number of rottis where I worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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