Arya Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Best wishes for your poor cat!!! Hope he/she is okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 shek - how do you feed him, how does he eat, how often, what. Any feeding info pls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 Best wishes for your poor cat!!! Hope he/she is okay :p Thank you. I have just had news that he has made it through the surgery and is already awake. One super strong cat that one! He is now a $5,000 puddy tat shek - how do you feed him, how does he eat, how often, what. Any feeding info pls. For the last two nights Daegon has been making an absolute liar out of me...he has cleared his bowl twice. I am hoping this keeps up, but he will still definitely be going to the vet, as his energy levels and appetite are much lower than they were when he was younger and what I would expect. He gets offered food twice a day, if it's walked away from it gets picked up. I feed Kovu and Daegon together as sometimes it does seem to make a difference. I use the TOT on both dogs, sitting together, they are both very good at this. The last two nights there has been drool from Daegon, this is very different to what has been happening over the past months...I am hoping this is a very good sign of a good appetite to stay put! Both dogs are on Bonnie working dog for their kibble, they also get eggs with shells, sardines/tuna, natural yoghurt, fruit/vegies and mince (not all at once, bits here and there over different days). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ons Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 he must have been reading DOL and wanted to make a liar out of his mummy saying he doesn't like eating that's great news. Onsy was never a big eater when he was younger, left his breakfast out for him in the morning, still there when I got home. He still now savours every mouthful. he also is a very lazy dog. Tilly demolishes her food like she hasnt been fed for a week and runs around non stop, so I guess every dog is different. Now getting a bit older he may eat better. Keep perservering with the down, when you can get a full vetcheck and hope all goes well with your puddy tat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 Onsy was never a big eater when he was younger, left his breakfast out for him in the morning, still there when I got home. He still now savours every mouthful. he also is a very lazy dog. Tilly demolishes her food like she hasnt been fed for a week and runs around non stop, so I guess every dog is different. Now getting a bit older he may eat better. This sounds exactly like Daegon and Kovu. If someone saw Kovu eat they'd think I haven't fed him for the past week Will certainly have Daegon at the vet as soon as the vet will see me...owing them $2000 now I don't think they're going to be mighty impressed if I bring another one in :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 If the vet check up finds nothing wrong,........surely this dog does "something" which he has to earn, to be rewarded. Dropping before entering your house, your car, anything!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Hey Shek! I am a C-Wer and have been following little Gomez's story. So glad to hear he is well. Back to Daegon, I went through a similar thing with my Lab X GSP. He knew all the commands but would do them at his own pace, sometimes after one or two corrections. It was driving me CRAZY! He was easy though because he is very food driven! I also started being firmer and he is 99% better now (I won't say 100% because he still has bad days!). If he didn't sit the first time, I would pull up on the chain and push him bum down. I made sure I NEVER gave the command more than once (which was hard!). He did learn though. I was thinking, if he like sheep, maybe you could excite him with a bit of sheepskin? I don't know where you would get some, but our local Saddle-Up used to sell odd-ends of it. If it smells sheepy, it might get him going? Just a thought! Good luck with the naughty boy and keeping little Gomez in my thoughts. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 If the vet check up finds nothing wrong,........surely this dog does "something" which he has to earn, to be rewarded. Dropping before entering your house, your car, anything!!!!!!!!! Yes, of course he does things to get rewarded...he gets told to sit, stand, stay, wait, leave it, come etc. etc. all throughout the day, and he will do them quite happily. It's drop we have an issue with :p Hey Shek! I am a C-Wer and have been following little Gomez's story. So glad to hear he is well. :pI was thinking, if he like sheep, maybe you could excite him with a bit of sheepskin? I don't know where you would get some, but our local Saddle-Up used to sell odd-ends of it. If it smells sheepy, it might get him going? Just a thought! Oh thank you Kirty! I'm so pleased Gomez has beaten the odds and pulled through, he's a little trooper that boy :p You and I think alike on the sheep front :p Another Hobart DOLer has sheep and I got some wool from her to see if it'd work for Daegs. Nope. It wasn't standing or moving around mum Now that Daegon appears to have some form of appetite (which I'm hoping sticks around!) I will persevere with the training, but if he's refusing I will have to resort to corrections. Seems drop is really the only thing we have a lot of trouble with I think (like others here have said) he needs to realise that when I say it the first time I mean it and if it doesn't happen he will be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Being in the drop position is a submissive pose - so maybe he is challenging you a bit by not doing it. Or he doesn't see you as the boss, so he doesn't want you to put him in that position. I dunno - grasping at straws here! Go Gomez!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 I still think you would be better with just one visit to a behaviouralist/trainer to assess him. Maybe he's just being a stubborn pig & maybe not. I can't see how anyone can really diagnose it over the web. But, if there is something else going on...and you start really correcting him, you are just adding another potentially damaging training tool to the list of methods you have tried to get him to drop. You could end up with more problems & if they effect his eating issue...health risks as well. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted January 18, 2007 Author Share Posted January 18, 2007 Thanks everyone. I have been told by the trainers at my obedience club that he is just being stubborn, perhaps that's not it, I don't know. I don't think it's so much a huge challenge thing from him because he is very well behaved otherwise and does what I tell him. When obedience starts up again I will go and speak to someone about it and see what they think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Hope your cat is OK. When he does drop around the house, just to lie about, does he look comfortable and relaxed, while doing so? Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted January 18, 2007 Author Share Posted January 18, 2007 Gomez seems fine now, thank you Yes, when Daegon drops around the house he looks fine, no face squirming or positioning or slowing down or anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 remember you have been using an aggressive command to make the dog drop. He thinks he's in trouble hence resisting the drop. Never make commands a punishment - you WANT the dog to follow them not think he's done something wrong. Hence the physical side of the correction. Drop - correct. DROP - correct. Go up in volume but dont make it sound like he has done something wrong. Make it fun, always reward, be stern but fair and most importantly dont accept defiance. Try luring him down with a treat, work on drop slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyWild Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Just a few thoughts - hard to know what to do without seeing in person Daegon knows exactly what drop is, he's just stubborn. He's really not interested in food and for the past 5 months or so I'm guessing it has been an uphill battle just to keep any kind of weight on him. Food is not going to work How do you 'know' this. A dog perception of what is being asked can be very different to what we believe they know. If Daegon is now suddenly having a punisher thrown into the equation, this can really confuse things for them. To me this is know evident with your description of the drop "slowing down", a behaviour that is often attributed to appeasement (ie "i know your angry - so i'll do very little so i don't upset you even further"). If he bahaves and doesn't "challenge" you in any other situations, why would it be only with the drop that the "challenging" occurs. To me there is confusion in the dogs mind of what is wanted and there is also less reward than punishment occuring. Is the food issue an indication of something internal not quite right? Do you see any desire for food at meal times when there is no competition for it - have you tried fasting for one or two days (as long as he is in good enough condition), does this increase the desire? There are plenty of natural products that can help with increasing hunger. Have you seen a vet or someone practising alternative therapies about the food issue? As suggested by a few, i would spend more time working on finding the things that motivate him, building that desire, and potentially transferring that value to something that you can control and make available at any time. If the desire is high enough, and there is a positive association with what a behaviour leads to, there should not be any hesitation in doing drops. Try 'marking' (clicking or other) any time you see him drop of his own accord and reward the hell out of him with what ever you can. Try and leave asking for a drop for a while until you see an improvement in desire to perform or offer the behaviour to you. Seeing a behaviourist or experienced trainer would definitely be the best way to go - but may not be an option at the moment with $2000 owing at the vet Best of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 (edited) I had the EXACT same problems with my boy for a while and Nekhbet is spot on I had trouble with sitting (forget dropping at that point) as he would never sit until I growled at him. It was really hard to do it at first, but I started giving a correction if he hadn't obeyed the first time within 2 seconds. The difference was enormous and I never have to raise my voice since he started to take me seriously. Dropping has also been tricky with him as he takes his sweet arse time doing it. I can't really correct him for doing it slowly as he DOES do it, he just needed motivation to get down quicker. I know you said that Daegon isn't interested in toys or food, but have you tried in different environments? My boy switches off prey drive completely unless something like a cat kicks into it, but I can get him hyped up over toys inside the house and it's been enough to work on getting a quick and reliable drop out of him for any occasion. I'll post a video when I get home if ya like Edited January 19, 2007 by jaybeece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Glad the cat is OK. Could you show an example of your dog to us, via video (Utube - or whatever it is called?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 Thanks everyone. I know Daegon knows the command because he has not always refused to do it or been slow to complete the drop. There was a time when his drop was very fast. The food issue...well, ever since I started this thread he's been keen for his dinner, drooling and cleaning his bowl...whoever said he's been reading this HE HAS! I will definitely be trying to build his drive for something and hopefully that will improve his obedience...because while he knows his stuff he isn't often overly enthusiastic. Some days he is, some days he isn't, so I'd like to improve that because when he IS focusing and willing to work he does great. A video would be great jaybeece, I will attempt to get one, but I've never done it before and I don't want to be in it...so it might take a while What's the bet when I video him he'll drop perfectly because he's been reading again?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 A video would be great jaybeece, I will attempt to get one, but I've never done it before and I don't want to be in it...so it might take a while :) I understand, completely. Now, no cheating, we want to see the good and the bad LOL. A friend was over this morning and he was taping my dogs. Perfect morning, as it was still raining. Yeah..........do not have to buy water for the tanks, yet. Anyway, called Yank who has a very nice return, slipped on the wet surface, and slammed into my right knee, as I ducked away. Needless to say that part of the tape will be edited LOL, as it hurt and my language!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 A video would be great jaybeece, I will attempt to get one, but I've never done it before and I don't want to be in it...so it might take a while I understand, completely. Now, no cheating, we want to see the good and the bad LOL. A friend was over this morning and he was taping my dogs. Perfect morning, as it was still raining. Yeah..........do not have to buy water for the tanks, yet. Anyway, called Yank who has a very nice return, slipped on the wet surface, and slammed into my right knee, as I ducked away. Needless to say that part of the tape will be edited LOL, as it hurt and my language!!!!! Ouch! I hope you're alright now Yes you'll see the good (hopefully) and the very, very bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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