What Would You Change About Your Obedience Club And Why

[Kelpiegal]

I'm pretty happy with the club both of my dogs attend. Overall they run a pretty good training program & agility & other areas like tracking, herding & flyball are relatively easy to find out about either by talking to someone within the club who does these or referalls or brochures we have in the office.

Having been a volunteer in the kitchen of our dog club last year & this year having gone onto committee the one issue I have struggled with is being able to get decent volunteers for all areas around the club. This year (unfortunately) I had to decline doing kitchen as last year left me very little consistent time to train my own dogs. This year I picked up the position of Publicity which enables me to spend more time with my dogs training at class & I can do the admin side of things at home in my own time.

Sadly like a lot of clubs we rely on the volunteers to help run our club. Our membership numbers are doing well but unfortunately we have many who are happy to come & train, use the facilities & then go home. I don't consider our club to be expensive in what we provide & our kitchen offers pretty reasonable food & drinks at excellent prices but we are now looking at possibly having to close the kitchen this year due to no-one being able to volunteer in there. At this stage it may well end up being a no food/serve yourself tea & coffee set up.

Anyway, I'll get off my lil soapbox now. I spose I'm still just frustrated with the lack of appreciation & interest clubs get from a lot of their members when it comes to helping out. For me personally, although it did take up some of my time, the kitchen allowed my a lot of interaction & socialising with many members of the club I may never really have had much to do with.

Does anyone else's club have such a hard time getting volunteers?

[ReXy]

yeah but RExy yours go to ll the available seminars they are really good for that at your club

yep they are good for that kind of stuff.. overall im very happy with my club, and i think its a great idea that instructor attend and give them much credit for the dedication and hard work they put in..

[Perry's Mum]

Perry and I are obedience school dropouts. She came to me with lots of problems and obedience classes were not the answer. There were so many people in the class it was difficult to hear, there was little explanation of why we were doing some exercises, some were just pointless like looking for balls under cones. I wanted her to learn to sit, drop, come, give, take, walk nicely on the lead, ignore other dogs, wait to eat until I told her. She would already sit and come when we started and after 5 terms had not learned much else. She has learned most of the rest either at home (thank you K9 Force) or at herding school.

Since she has to pass Advanced obedience training before we can do flyball or agility, we will never do them because we did not even pass Intermediate, never mind advanced. Thank God for sheepdog school.

[FHRP]

Sure. Our club was keen to introduce the basics of more complex exercises early on. So the powers that be included things like the beginnings of retrieving and scent discrimination in the beginners curriculum.

Others think we need to include more complex exercises because "they're more fun to teach".

And here I thought it was so the basics of the more complex trialing exercises were introduced young! Having repeatedly seen the problems people have once starting Open (or now Novice) and even the companion classes, with teaching their disinterested dogs to retrieve, I think introducing the concept of retrieving to all pups is a great idea. However, I'm not convinced our club has 'got it right' yet.

[SwaY]

there was little explanation of why we were doing some exercises, I wanted her to learn to sit, drop, come, give, take, walk nicely on the lead, ignore other dogs, wait to eat until I told her

I found the same with the only lesson i did. The instructor was a moron, told me to drag! my dog to make her do what i wanted.

He expected all dogs to be able to do they above you mentioned. She was 12 weeks. We learnt them at home.

he would point to other classes higher up then the beginner which we were in, saying your dog should be doing that.

I found him rude, arrogant and just an overall crap teacher. There my views others may think differently.

We go to socialise but not join in the classes.

[poodlefan]

Perry's Mum:

Since she has to pass Advanced obedience training before we can do flyball or agility, we will never do them because we did not even pass Intermediate, never mind advanced.

If you are talking about the requirements to do agility at the ACTCDC, that's not correct. There is no formal entry requirement but your dog must pass a control test which includes off lead control. Whoever told you that was wrong.

[Sayreovi]

I cant think of anything to change about my club, the main agility instructor trials and competes with his dogs and is a judge as well the helpers are currently trailling their dogs so its a good experienced mix in regards to ways of training.

For flyball, its pretty much the same all instructors are competiting in flyball and it is on in the morning before obedience.

For both you have to have a yellow which is level 3 out of 6 or display good off lead control, most training now will be done in our new off lead enclosures.

For timing ive worked myself out great, except i dont do obedience at the moment, i currently turn up for Agility with darcy, then swap do agility with Nova. Then we rest for about 30 minutes and do flyball with Nova then flyball with Darcy. Its tiring for me but its fun lol

[sas]

I can tell you why I stopped going to my club and hense the improvements that need to be made:

1) Uneducated trainers, placing dog aggressive dogs in dangerous situations.

2) Old fashion methods. i.e. for heel.....walk yank...walk yank...

OR....drop = give dog command and then yank it's collar and pull it into a drop even if it is giving high resistance.

3) Trainers with little patience, I have seen trainers belittle some people because they didn't feel confident to take the head halter off quite yet.

4) People not being aware of their dog and keeping a good distance from other dogs especially dogs wearing special colour collars to specifiy they can be aggressive.

5) Classes too long, no breaks or fun encouraged.

[Rom]

I think that every now and then the people running the club should come into a class and see whats going on, as alot of instrcutors can be outright rude to people

I also love the instructors having their own dog in class to do demos, etc

I love it when another instructor brings there dog into the class I'm teaching and I would actually prefer this to the instructor taking there own dog into a class. We have had issues with instructors who take there own dogs into the class that they are taking paying more attention to their own dog rather than teaching the class. If another instructor has some free time and brings their dog into the class that I'm teaching I like to utilize them to demonstrate and to help clarify points that I'm trying to get across. (I guess it wouldn't have to be an instructor though, could just be someone with more experience?) One of the biggest winners though is that newbies are very self conscious and this sometimes affects how they praise their dog. But when you get another instructor with a dog in the class who is enthusiastically praising their dog, then everybody seems to relax and cut loose a little more with the praise.

more trinaing for instructors i feel the vca ahould run an good trianing program for instructors

Better communication skills

More oppurtunity for ring work

distraction class brining in lots of different things to socialise and trian with people with umbrellas skateboards footys etc

oppurtunitys to trian with other trianers workshop type thing

we run our advanced classes earlier already.

Oh yes, not nearly enough attentions is given to instructor training! Before I got involved with the CCCQ, I was given some old Dog World magazines to read and remember noticing that there was mention that CCCQ affiliate obedience clubs had accredited instructors. That may have been true once upon a time, but it certainly isn't what I found. While it seems that there are a few very experienced triallers, trialling is one thing and teaching is another.

We actually do the skateboard, umbrella, wheelchair, walking frame, flapping loose clothes, bicycle thing.

Some others that I can think of:

-Maximum class size for beginners class to ensure that everyone gets the attention that they need. Twas not a popular suggestion at the meeting that I raised it at because membership numbers were considered more important. (Yeah, I know, income is important too, but at what cost? Unsatisfied drop outs don't do the club any good)

-Our training sessions are 45mins. In beginners I feel that some of this time would be well spent in discussion, explanation and practicing moves without the dog. Then each person bring a dog out at a time to then go through the moves with the dog. I feel that this would reduce the distraction for the green dogs and everybody in class could get a turn at seeing the practical side before they actually have a go without having to worry about controlling a very distracted dog. I could be wrong and I'm happy to have it pointed out, but I just feel that beginner handlers are sooo uncoordinated and their dogs are sooo distracted that it is really hard to ensure that the dog is getting clear messages.

-Have beginners fill out a questionnaire about their dogs to help them realize what their dog is going to work best for rather than the handler or somebody else deciding how the dog will be rewarded. I think that there should also be a question asking the newbies what they want to get out of the club and what they want to be able to do with their dogs, how much time they can spare to practice at home and what they are willing to put into the achievement of their goals. Whilst there are plenty of areas where many clubs seem to need improvement, there is a good proportion of newbies that expect magic over night.

-I think that block heeling patterns are a waste of time and do little to help beginner dogs learn and they are boring for both the dog and the handler. These do little to foster the loose lead walking techniques that work the best when every one is turning or stopping when an instructor calls it rather than having the handler learn to do it when the dog is out of position.

[helen]

My ideal class for a pet owner would be....

- to learn the basics for good manners eg sit,stay,come etc

- then to be able to use the commands in a fun way to reinforce it all eg tricks,games, doggy dancing

- to have a series of ? 4 lessons when you would do rally o or mini agility, to give owners an idea of what can be done with their dogs.

-classes that are not an hour long. Maybe 45 minutes

-instructors that have good communication skills and maybe more recent training

.............................

I'm lucky because I belong to a club just like this, they also do flyball and have some more advanced classes for people trialling in obedience.

The head instructor and several of the other instructors are accredited Delta people so certainly have plenty of knowledge, but they continue to learn from other sources.

I wish more clubs were like this. Not only are the training methods used positive but so is the treatment of the human students. The only drawback is that class sizes are limited so there is always a waiting list. The training is not expensive either considering the quality of the classes, only $15 per school term

Edited January 8, 2007 by helen

[wheres my rock]

my ideal club wouldnt focus on pet owners t would be like a schutzhund club is specifficaly designed for competition sports. It would focus on trial work agility etc classes would be for epople serious about these sports

[Staranais]

1) Uneducated trainers, placing dog aggressive dogs in dangerous situations.

2) Old fashion methods. i.e. for heel.....walk yank...walk yank...

OR....drop = give dog command and then yank it's collar and pull it into a drop even if it is giving high resistance.

3) Trainers with little patience, I have seen trainers belittle some people because they didn't feel confident to take the head halter off quite yet.

4) People not being aware of their dog and keeping a good distance from other dogs especially dogs wearing special colour collars to specifiy they can be aggressive.

5) Classes too long, no breaks or fun encouraged.

Sas, I agree will all your reasons!

The main reason I stopped going to the two obedience/agility clubs I tried out was that the classes just weren't organised enough. I got sick of having to always be on the look out for uncontrolled offleash dogs who would pop out of nowhere and attempt to play with my (then highly) dog aggressive dog, for instructors who encouraged people to take their dogs over to 'socialise' with my dog without asking me, and with having dogs roaming around ignored on the end of a flexileash. The chaotic atmosphere prevented us even using the classes as effective socialisation, since they were just too unpredictable and could easily have gotten very dangerous.

Classes were also generally too long to keep my dog's interest - I'd rather have them half hour long maximum, not a whole hour.

The instructors were generally pretty inflexible in the methods they allowed in their classes. Some of the more positive ones would act upset and shocked at the idea of my dog wearing a check chain or pinch collar, despite the fact it improved his behaviour and I clearly knew how to use it, and would try to guilt trip me into putting him onto a 'humane' halti, or into ditching the collar entirely and 'trusting' my dog aggressive dog offleash. Some even got upset if I verbally corrected him. I imagine it would be similarly annoying to go to a traditional club and have the instructors not let you use toys or food to motivate your dog and insisting you used old fashioned methods, like Sas described.

There was also no system for referring 'problem' dogs to further training at either club. As they were mostly volunteer-run clubs, I definately didn't expect any of the instructors to be experts at treating serious fear or serious aggression problems, but it would have been good if they were able to recognise the problems that were out of their league and had some system of refering those particular students to good private trainers.

That's my whinge over, anyway. We now train on our own, or sometimes take private lessons.

[MrsD]

I love it when another instructor brings there dog into the class I'm teaching and I would actually prefer this to the instructor taking there own dog into a class. We have had issues with instructors who take there own dogs into the class that they are taking paying more attention to their own dog rather than teaching the class. If another instructor has some free time and brings their dog into the class that I'm teaching I like to utilize them to demonstrate and to help clarify points that I'm trying to get across. (I guess it wouldn't have to be an instructor though, could just be someone with more experience?) One of the biggest winners though is that newbies are very self conscious and this sometimes affects how they praise their dog. But when you get another instructor with a dog in the class who is enthusiastically praising their dog, then everybody seems to relax and cut loose a little more with the praise.

I get dragged out & used as a demo constantly, both at my old club where I was an instructor & used to train 1 experienced dog in a lower class as I had 2 & now at my current club where I am not instructing, but they know that I am an experienced handler (even though I have inexperienced dogs). Another thing that often gets commented on as you pointed out is the way I talk to my dogs alot & psych them up, but on the other hand, it often gets mentioned (rightly too I think) that NOT everyone's dogs are going to learn at the same rate, especially dogs handled by experienced handlers.

As for what I'd like to change about our club - how long do you have? One major pet hate of mine is having handlers standing around, especialy in the lower classes - instructor will be helping one particular person but instead of keeping the class moving or doing something, they will get the person to one side (so no one else can learn from the instructions) & spend 10 mins explaining how to get the dog to sit at heel by luring or something similar.

Drives me absolutely batty :shakehead: .

[Rom]

As for what I'd like to change about our club - how long do you have? ;) One major pet hate of mine is having handlers standing around, especialy in the lower classes - instructor will be helping one particular person but instead of keeping the class moving or doing something, they will get the person to one side (so no one else can learn from the instructions) & spend 10 mins explaining how to get the dog to sit at heel by luring or something similar.

Drives me absolutely batty :shakehead: .

I have to admit that I'm sometimes guilty of that

I hate to see someone struggling and often its a toss up btn letting them struggle till the end of the class and then pull them aside and give them some one on one, or take 5 and fix it now. I think that its a problem that is created by both block heeling patterns and class sizes that are too large. But do you let the handler continue to get it wrong for the rest of the class only to help them at the end? Depending on the issue I prefer to take time to fix it straight away so that the dog is getting a clear message and there is no confusion created.

I'll admit though that I'm probably more suited to working one on one with dogs with issues than I am to a group situation.

As an alternative, lets say that there were a number of short rally-o style courses set up and the instructor could buzz btn the courses helping people with issues. There is still the problem of people being involved elsewhere that wouldn't get the benefit of the discussion btn the instructor and the person with the issue, but at least they could keep moving and working with their dog.

[MrsD]

As for what I'd like to change about our club - how long do you have? One major pet hate of mine is having handlers standing around, especialy in the lower classes - instructor will be helping one particular person but instead of keeping the class moving or doing something, they will get the person to one side (so no one else can learn from the instructions) & spend 10 mins explaining how to get the dog to sit at heel by luring or something similar.

Drives me absolutely batty :D :shakehead: .

I have to admit that I'm sometimes guilty of that

I hate to see someone struggling and often its a toss up btn letting them struggle till the end of the class and then pull them aside and give them some one on one, or take 5 and fix it now. I think that its a problem that is created by both block heeling patterns and class sizes that are too large. But do you let the handler continue to get it wrong for the rest of the class only to help them at the end? Depending on the issue I prefer to take time to fix it straight away so that the dog is getting a clear message and there is no confusion created.

I'll admit though that I'm probably more suited to working one on one with dogs with issues than I am to a group situation.

As an alternative, lets say that there were a number of short rally-o style courses set up and the instructor could buzz btn the courses helping people with issues. There is still the problem of people being involved elsewhere that wouldn't get the benefit of the discussion btn the instructor and the person with the issue, but at least they could keep moving and working with their dog.

Rom, I would like to see

- the problem dog taken out of the class & given a bit of one on one attention from a senior instructor. Most clubs have at least one person who could take 10 minutes out of their evening to help out someone who is having problems with their dog, once the problem & solution has been explained the person can come back into the class. This often works best if the problem is something that not all dogs have problems with eg aggression

- if the problem is something that is very common the instructor can use the problem as an opportunity to instruct the whole class on the problem. The problem is that many times the instructor will take the dog to the side of the class or get "up close & personal" with the problem dog & often the rest of the class is standing around, not able to hear what is being said or able to work out how it pertains to them & their training. If you want to make it a class learning experience, make sure that the whole class can hear & make sure that you are doing something with the dog to SHOW the difference between before & after. Too many times I have seen instructors stand there & announce "See this dog has a problem XYZ, blah blah blah" & then promptly start talking quietly to the handler telling them what to do etc & then after 2 or 3 minutes step back & say "So we could do blah blah blah about it" etc etc. WTF is all that about then? Why not address the whole class & let them know everything thats being said so they dont just get the "editied version". Not sure if what Im trying to say is coming out clearly ;) , too early in the morning

- the instructor could take the dog & handler to the side & while they are working with the dog could get the other handlers to do something with their dogs eg stays, get them to do 3 or 4 steps trying for focused heeling etc. There are plenty of things that instructors can get the class to do so that they don't have to stand around twiddling their thumbs. Having said that, another one of my pet hates at my club is getting dogs in 1st class particularly doing weaving - the handlers dont have enough experience to walk their dogs in a straight line 5 paces with control, let alone weave in & out of dogs who are often lunging & trying to make it a free for all . But anyway, I digress ;) . I like your idea of a short rally-o course or similar setup to keep the others occupied.

-the instructor could take the handler & the dog & work their help into the class as they are moving. This is what I often used to do, I guess its one of the hardest ones to do, but I found it used to work well for me. I would keep the problem dog close to me & give help to that handler whilst giving instruction to the class as a whole as well. Doesnt work as well if you have an instructor that just gives instruction like "Forward, left turn, halt, forward, right turn, right about turn halt" you have to be used to talking to your class constantly so you can divide your instruction between the whole class & the lone handler that needs help.

Any of those scenarios would be better than the shomozzle I often see now at our club. I agree class sizes can affect it, but in our club our class sizes are not usually that large (6-8 would be considered a largish class), I just think that some instructors dont feel comfortable enough instructing to the whole class using problem dogs as a learning experience for the other handlers.

BTW, my comments are generic "we" "they" etc are just general not specific & relate to my club, not anyone specific on here .