dogdude Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 How, and what can we do to improve our clubs? I think running the higher classes at an earlier time would showcase the club to newbies, and to show what can be acheived, and also what to strive for. Why is it that the higher classes are usually ran at a later time? Besides the obvious that we dont have enough good volunteer instructors around, what else could be improved at your club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 At our club we run classes three times a week. However the higher classes tend to be at different times to beginners because many of the lower class instructors have their own dogs in the higher classes. I'd love to change the curriculum at our club... too much focus on the "nice to have" exercises and not enough emphasis on the need to have stuff at the lower levels IMHO. However my opinion is not the majority one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy's mum Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I think that's a great idea to run the higher classes earlier. Also I really think that people shouldn't be encouraged to go off lead quite so early. Before Christmas I was in class and half the class were encouraged to go offlead by the instructor... it turned into chaos, with the dogs all running off. This is a very scary situation for all involved, including those of us that were on-lead and have dogs that don't cope too well with off-lead dogs charging around them!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 Hi Poodlefan I'd love to change the curriculum at our club... too much focus on the "nice to have" exercises and not enough emphasis on the need to have stuff at the lower levels IMHO. However my opinion is not the majority one. Not too sure what you mean? Can you expand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 Before Christmas I was in class and half the class were encouraged to go offlead by the instructor... it turned into chaos, with the dogs all running off. This is a very scary situation for all involved, including those of us that were on-lead and have dogs that don't cope too well with off-lead dogs charging around them!!![/quote ]Hi Roxy's mum I think that sought of thing comes down to the method of training, and also club training format. Some clubs I know introduce off lead around class 3, some class 4. Positive reinforcment trainers tend to go off lead early, where as aversive trainers are better off going off lead as little as possible. These are the pro's and cons of the different training styles. (IMO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Dogdude: Not too sure what you mean? Can you expand? Sure. Our club was keen to introduce the basics of more complex exercises early on. So the powers that be included things like the beginnings of retrieving and scent discrimination in the beginners curriculum. My view is that more focus and control should be taught early on because your average pet owner only does one or two session (each of two months) tops. I see little point in having a pet that can find a toy under one of three cones but can't walk on a loose lead or come when its called. Others think we need to include more complex exercises because "they're more fun to teach". I don't give a damn about stuff like that because its control that keeps pets being walked - a dog that won't come or a dog that pulls on lead simply doesn't leave the yard. I'm in it for the dogs.... not for my own "enjoyment". I train my own dog for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 poodlefan That is a good point, but a lot of pet owners lose interest if they do the same thing all the time and it is not seen to be 'fun'. In classes geared towards pet owners, I think you have to include some non essential 'fun' tricks such as rollover, shake etc as it helps to keep owners motivated, and it is fun to teach the dog and they like to show it to friends etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 Poodlefan: Yes, I think I would have to agree. It sounds like your club is trying to cater for everyone. I think that sought of thing should be some type of elective subject, to those that are interested. Those type of exercises wont keep dogs out of pounds! I think that should be a clubs main focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) Kavik you can make basic dog training fun with a little imagination... and some games. It wasn't the dog owners who wanted the change but the instructors... most pet owners I know want their dogs to sit, come when they're called, not pull on the lead and not jump on the kids. Introducing the basics of obedience exercises early on (when taught by people who don't do competition obedience) leads to some very bad habits being ingrained... and having to be undone later. ETA - when you teach adult dogs in beginners you are usually faced with a few training issues. Trying to get someone with a disinterested JRT to get the dog to focus on them rather than the other dogs in the class is a big enough challenge without trying to teach it to retrieve. "Traditional" obedience breeds cope with the extra exercises. A lot of people with dogs with issues find them rather demotivating. Spending time correcting a bad leash puller is far more rewarding for me and the handler than teaching it to hand target. Edited January 8, 2007 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 More classes, and instructors who know what they are doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) At one of my clubs they run the higher classes earlier, and its great, as while beginners are waiting they can watch the "good dogs" lol I think that every now and then the people running the club should come into a class and see whats going on, as alot of instrcutors can be outright rude to people I understand its hard to get volunteers at some clubs, but instructors like that are doing much more damage than good to the club I also love the instructors having their own dog in class to do demos, etc Edited January 8, 2007 by shoemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t(AD)pole Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I would like our club to have agility lessons. We have agility and if you higher then class 2 you can go and do some agility but that means everyone only gets 10 minutes doing agility . The reason I can to the club was to do agility and although I don't mind doing a bit of the obedience stuff I really want to concentrate on the agility more. Thats why I have to make and buy my own equipment to practice at home. All classes are at the same time and the whole thing only goes for an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 more trinaing for instructors i feel the vca ahould run an good trianing program for instructors Better communication skills More oppurtunity for ring work distraction class brining in lots of different things to socialise and trian with people with umbrellas skateboards footys etc oppurtunitys to trian with other trianers workshop type thing we run our advanced classes earlier already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavsRcute Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) My ideal class for a pet owner would be.... - to learn the basics for good manners eg sit,stay,come etc - then to be able to use the commands in a fun way to reinforce it all eg tricks,games, doggy dancing - to have a series of ? 4 lessons when you would do rally o or mini agility, to give owners an idea of what can be done with their dogs. -classes that are not an hour long. Maybe 45 minutes -instructors that have good communication skills and maybe more recent training I have been to 4 different clubs. The first 2 were for an hour long and concentrated on heeling for 45 mins, and as I lost interest so did my dog. At one of the clubs the first 2 instructors allowed the use of food, and the third one didn't. So, I think consistency between instructors is necessary. The fourth one was great..used clickers,food etc and as i have a cavalier who would sell her soul for food, they worked really well About every 15 minutes or so there would be a short break and you could practice a trick etc. They were only very small classes but you had to pay in advance and due to illness I missed quite a few. I know i am probably looking for the impossible but I'll keep looking. I may have found a trickNtreat class that runs for 4 weeks, so we'll see how we go Edited January 8, 2007 by CavsRcute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squeak Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 NO dog off-lead under ANY circumstances (including instructors dogs) until all classes have started. I hate having to play "dodgems" with off-lead dogs waiting for class to start, or worse, trying to get to my class! I have a very, very friendly dog who wants to play with any dog, esp those off-lead. As a result, I end up with a bouncy, over-excited dog when I finally do get to class! And, I would love for people to (a) watch what their dog is doing whilst waiting in the vetting line... and not yakking to the person next to them and (b) leave a clear distance of at least one dog between people waiting in the vetting line, instead of having their dog pounce on mine, or surprise her from behind Never gonna happen, I know, but I can dream. Also would love a bit more consistency with the methods that the different instructors use - they range from purely positive to purely traditional. I understand variety is good, but I think it confuses a lot of people when they get told to correct their dog harshly one week, then told not to correct them the next week, when they end up with a purely positive trainer for an instructor. People keep raving on about how important consistency is for the dog, I think it is just as important for the owners. And to have an instructor that gives me some credit for knowing my dog and what she will/won't respond to would be nice, instead of just ramming their methods down my throat. I would love for the club to introduce an "agility foundation" class, for those who are interested in doing agility, but feel that their dog is not ready yet, but want to build the basics. I'm keen to do agility, but won't do it with our girl until she is 2 years old, because she is a large mixed breed. I'll get off my soapbox now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 Agility seems to keep popping up as a subject of disappointment, and I can see why. The trouble with obedience clubs is that by the time they finish teaching the various classes, there is usually very little time left to concentrate on agility. Remember that as they are mainly volunteer instructors, they have lives of their own, and also want to train their own dogs. I think what is needed, is like a "club" run within a "club" to fix this. The trouble is a lack of agility instructors with enough knowledge. If you think that there is not enough instructors for obedience, try finding a good agilty one, or infact any! The two "clubs" would compliment each other nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReXy Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 one thing for my club especially.. there is a lot of child handlers.. i think maybe having a kids group only would benefit them.. i know its hard to get instructors. and one that can really relate to kids. often in the class there is a younger child, and they spend most of the time explaining to the kids what XXXX means etc.perhaps a shorter class for them as well. also to break it up a bit with general tips , care, grooming and games , would also be great for the kids. i think often they find it boring or not really interested. but i admire them for keeping at it and coming back week after week.. more training and seminars for the instructors.. all tho i think mine are great more fun days games ect.. and introducing things such as ,, lawn mowers bikes ( big scary things)..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) I'm with a few others about higher classes earlier to "showcase" what's possible to the newbies. Also , more encouragement towards competition by way of INFORMATION. Tell them about the fun day comps and what the other classes do it for. Explain about a trial, the classes, the exercises , etc. Explain the practical and competition "WHYS" of the exercises. I would even go so far as an info tour during a club trial for newbies, complete with free lunch, and a chat with some seasoned handlers at each level. I know we are all busy at trials but we were all there once and think about what got you a) interested B)encouraged you to compete and C) kept you focussed when things went wrong. Information about agility, fly ball, herding, tracking should all be made availiable as part of the disicpline. Edited b/c I thought of some more: Less of this "off hands" stuff of "we teach you how to train your dog, not train your dog for you"...if a handler does'nt get it...show them with their dog. That way they realise that 1) their dog can do it and 2) they see the command/signal given properly Edited January 8, 2007 by Alpha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 yeah but RExy yours go to ll the available seminars they are really good for that at your club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdayz Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I wasnt going to answer as i have hardly attended club in a year, but maybe thats why i should answer Weekend training is hard once trialling especially doing multiple dogs and multiple disciplines we generally are committed through most weekends of spring, autumn and winter. Classes are too long, my dogs dont want to do a full hour, i believe shorter 20 minute sessions especially for more advanced dogs are better, too many dogs get bored by doing heelwork for 60 minutes every weekend for a year. Yes i could take my dog and just do the first 20 minutes, but then my dogs will never move up a class because they dont complete the full session. Maybe the clubs that hold regular testing days have solved that one Short specialist classes/workshops concentrating on a single exercise for the trialling dogs, though obviously you need instructors who have trialled for this part. Even specialist classes for say trick training to encourage people to continue bringing their family dogs and kids to. Generally i would like to see a move away from being a dog obedience club to a dogsport club, not just to bring in the agility side more but also the other sports. While i do other sports with my dogs at no point has anyone from the club i attended from the time my dogs were pups encouraged or even mentioned other disciplines like tracking, herding, flyball. If a club cannot provide the training itself, i still believe they should maybe have invited trainers or at least info on local clubs that do. My personal view is the club should be there to promote the dog and owner relationship for its entirity not simply the initial first steps, and if that means sending members to other clubs to explore other disciplines or combining efforts with other clubs then do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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