His Crappy Retrieve Is My Fault

[Arya]

Forgot to mention, I also do what I was told 'not' to do which is make dumbell fun too. Otherwise dog won't work with dumbell and just with toys - cos dumbell can be just seen as work. Dumbell comes out to the park and is mixed in with other games in our house. I've never had her run off with it, either, which was why I was always told to keep it separate. But she didn't initially like to retrieve it. So watch out for that problem if you're doing dumbell.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Teaching the dog to out/give & to take the item or reward is of course a requirement, what I have foudn though is, if the dog is motivated by what it has to retrieve, often problems occur with the out or give as our asking the dog to give up what he has just earned.

Often the recall is slow as the dog already has the reward, I know that the dog can find the re throw rewarding too, but many dont do this easily or ever.

I use a reward tha I never throw (in most cases), & have the dog retrieve say a dumbell to "pay" for the reward I have... This makes for a fast recall, makes for a sure retrieve, makes for a dog hat is very willing to hand over the dumbell & of course the problem experienced by the OP doesnt occur..

[Shakti]

Hmmmm - his best ever reward is running to fetch a toy thrown. So what other suggestions for a reward that he *buys* with a retrieve? The only thing I can think of is his dinner but he would willingly leave his dinner for anything thrown. I am STUCK!!

[Arya]

Brooke, did you try having more than one ball/toy as I suggested? Did he just run out, grab the one you threw and then refuse to come back for the next one or what? If you don't mind looking a bit silly if anyone is watching, try acting hugely animated when he gets the ball and picks it up. Shout encouragement to him, wave your arms around, toss another ball up and down in the air and then run towards him with it. Run PAST him and then throw the second ball. He will chase it, you go back and pick up the first ball. Work in a roundabout way so that gradually, you both end up meeting after he chases and collects the ball. He comes a little way to you, you come a little way to him, give on both sides in the game until he is running towards you and dumping the first ball at your feet, waiting for you to throw the second ball. Or you could offer him 'pay' as K9 said in the form of some prized food (train when he is hungry, before dinner) but if he doesn't want it fine, I would not make an issue of trying to get the prize (ball)off him. Just some more ideas. On the plus side, it sounds like you have a dog who loves to chase so much that if you could get it under control, you'd easily be able to have him training in drive and being a fantastic worker If he doesn't want to run out and retrieve the way K9 suggested, he might well start doing this after working with more than one ball for a while. Our shepherds are too clever, that's the problem LOL. Keep letting us know how he is going!

[Shakti]

yes Arya!! I did exactly as you suggest and that works fine but he will just drop the ball or hurl it at me and then rush off after the second one. How do I get him to hang on to the first one and not just throw it at me???

[Arya]

yes Arya!! I did exactly as you suggest and that works fine but he will just drop the ball or hurl it at me and then rush off after the second one. How do I get him to hang on to the first one and not just throw it at me???

Okay, it takes time. It is excellent that he will rush off after the second ball. How close does he come to you before dropping the first ball or hurling it at you? When you say he hurls it at you, does it land in front of you? I seem to remember reading that he hit your other half with a stick or something! Okay, if so at least he is bringing it back that close and isn't hanging on to it for grim death, which my dog originally did. No way was she going to give up her trophy LOL! Now if he is dropping it near you or hurling it to you, can you pick it up without him rushing to grab it back? If so, that's great. If not, ignore and just work with the second one, swapping turn and turn about with the balls. As I said in my last post, work and work to get closer and closer by encouraging him back to you with lots of movement, shouting cheering, whatever to indicate it's part of the 'game'. You go towards him and he goes towards you. Try to get him to drop it close to, or at your feet. Then throw the second one. If you think about it, you have the powerful reward in your hand - the second ball. The trick is to work towards getting your dog to do what you want with the first ball to get the reward of the chase with the second ball. Try to think left of field about it when you're out there with him. Play around with different behaviours and watch him carefully. Is he fielding the ball like K9 said? Is he reluctant on the way back? Is he trying to grab both balls at once and hog the game (I had that one too!!!)Now also, you can instil in him that the ball throw is the reward by using it as a reward in obedience work. Are you doing this? Do you do any obedience work? Try holding the ball in your left hand and getting him to heel alongside you with it. When he does two or three steps in the correct position, reward him by using a key word like 'Yes!' or 'Alright!' and then throw the ball. The throw is the reward. The same with the drop. Ask him to drop. The second he does it properly, throw the ball. That is his reward. With practice, as he comes to control himself and his drive more, and realise that the ball throw is a reward, he will be more keen to return the first ball better to you when playing retrieve. It is all interlinked, the whole lot of it. You have to look at the big picture.

Finally (phew, what a long-winded post I've written!). Work inside with a dumbell as I said in one of my earlier posts. Sit on the couch with some treats and work on 'take', 'hold', 'give' with it. Reward him on the 'give'. You may find he sees this as a completely different exercise and will always give you a dumbell back. If you don't work with a dumbell at all, choose a toy and don't play with it outside in the beginning, just when doing that exercise. Then try what K9 said about putting the toy out and asking him to bring it back, minus the throw.

IMHO, the throw is the key to teaching your dog everything by the sound of it.

What do others think? Don't be too disheartened! Someone else on the forum was disappointed cos their dog wouldn't chase any toys or anything at all! But they're all different.

[spoilt lab lives here]

When i first read this thread a few weeks ago i thought, ha! a GSD hurling a stick would look funny He does do that! he is so funny, but when he does hurl the stick back to you he will make sure you throw it out again for him Playing 3 games of fetch at once at the meet on sunday was so much fun!

ETA

Do you have it on video? Would love to see it. What about changing to a safer retrieving article such as a soft toy, sticks aren't good anyway.

You should have seen him on sunday! He went to great lengths to find his stick out of no where

Edited January 16, 2007 by spoilt lab lives here

[country joe]

I have had mouthing issues with one dog and I went through teaching the hold

I taught the hold inside similar other have stated. Mainly hold and praise.

I taught the dog not to move to reposition the bird/dummy once it took it.

Then I taught the dog to sit hold and come. 2 paces across room to me.

Next I would sit dog hold and recall across room

Then recall with dumbell in between us.

The dog picks up and and delivers

Next I sat the dog and had it fetch to the side and recall back across room.

Then moved to send from side.

From there I went to the yard for a repeat.

I was dealing with a specific issue and I took about 3 months to work through this.

While I did this inside I was always sitting in a chair for the delivery.

Yes it did work.

Country Joe

[Arya]

I have had mouthing issues with one dog and I went through teaching the hold

I taught the hold inside similar other have stated. Mainly hold and praise.

I taught the dog not to move to reposition the bird/dummy once it took it.

Then I taught the dog to sit hold and come. 2 paces across room to me.

Next I would sit dog hold and recall across room

Then recall with dumbell in between us.

The dog picks up and and delivers

Next I sat the dog and had it fetch to the side and recall back across room.

Then moved to send from side.

From there I went to the yard for a repeat.

I was dealing with a specific issue and I took about 3 months to work through this.

While I did this inside I was always sitting in a chair for the delivery.

Yes it did work.

Country Joe

Country Joe, I just had a thought and wondered why I didn't think of this before. When teaching this way indoors, the sitting in a chair is probably quite important. If you're sitting in a chair to the dog, you must appear to be less likely to run off with the object so they may be more willing to give it up. I never thought of this. Learn lots from different people's posts on this forum!!!

[CaseyKay]

Hmmm, husband training...always so much harder than dog training. My competitive obedience dog does a very nice retrieve and it is an exercise we very rarely lose any marks on. What my husband used to do with her when she was a baby (she is a BC) was to "fake throw" all over the place and try and trick her, or to take it from her and then throw it before she could see where it went. I read something once that made me laugh "The fake throw: wow, you fooled a dog, what a proud moment for the top of the food chain"! She learnt to hurl the toy at him and leap back far enough to get ready for the next throw before he could pick it up.

I taught her "dumbells are different" and also "mum is different to dad". She is 6 years now and definately my dog. Even playing with a toy she knows better than to take it to him, she presents it to my hand (doesn't sit when just playing) and knows she has plenty of time to get in position by the time I throw to him.

When I'm not there she does the toy hurl, he does the fake throw (fooling her about 0% of the time) and both of them seem happy with this. Not the best in terms of being consistent with her!

I taught her with the dumbell the way most people have mentioned in this thread...working from holding in front and moving further. To btoh my dogs, "retrieve" is something different to "playing fetch". Both will correctly "retrieve" any object given the right set up.

[Arya]

CaseyKay - husband training... I live it You have to ask, if you are Alpha, exactly who is next in line? Dog or hubby... We have this humorous conversation in our house often!

[Arya]

Er... woops, I meant I love it! Freudian slip, I live it too I guess