Greyhound Whinging

[imy]

\The way I got around her sooking and crashing around in the crate was actually by getting rid of it altogether. She now has a trampoline bed that she stays on... and if she gets up in the middle of the night, I can growl "GOTOBED" without needing to get up myself and she slinks back and quietly goes to sleep. I don't know exactly what it was about the crate vs bed that stopped the sooking but hey... who's complaining?

I say stop feeding him in the pen altogether and bring him up to the house to feed him. Crate him and stand there and just wait until he is quiet.... the SECOND he is, plonk down the food bowl. Like I did with Kaeleigh, you can build it up a bit over time so that he's quiet for a few minutes before you feed him... but I agree that he's not associating noise vs quiet with not eating vs eating, BECAUSE when he does eventually shut up he still doesn't get his dinner... if you see what I mean. If you're going to with-hold a reward until he presents the desired behaviour, you need to actually give it when he DOES offer the behaviour... which you've been missing unfortunately. In his mind... he's noisy and he doesn't get food.. but when he shuts up (after you've gone) he doesn't get it either. I'm not picking you to bits because christ I understand how frustrating it is (could throttle Kaeleigh some days ) but sometimes it's hard to look at things objectively when you're close to them. I can imagine it would be tricky to stand down there and wait until he's quiet which is why I think you should forget feeding him down there altogether. Bring him up to the house, wait until he's shut up and then feed.. good luck to ya!

I like the way you think!

My current foster is a morning sooker. She is only now getting to know that "SHH!" Means be quiet and lay down, when she does, she gets "Good girl!" (which she knows as a positive thing now) I don't move a muscle when she sooks in the morning. Just a strict sounding "SHH!" So she gets no positive stuff until she does what I want, then, its "Good Girl!" IMMEDIATELY. Its working when we go upstairs and she's left downstairs too (she used to sook heaps)

First I had to train her with "Good Girl" as a positive.

It took her about 4 days worth of sooking for an hour in the morning (at 5am) before she would lay back down and settle but when she got that positive "good girl!" She started realising it was what I wanted... no treats, no negatives.

At first, when I said "Good girl" she'd jump back up and sook again, but I didn't move, didn't even open my eyes, just "SHH!"

Its taken a few weeks, and she still occasionally does it, but rarely.

I just wish my OH's kids were as easy to train... they are up at the crack of dawn, no matter what we say! :laugh

[Kavik]

Just an idea, what about trying TOT?

[ish]

I say stop feeding him in the pen altogether and bring him up to the house to feed him. Crate him and stand there and just wait until he is quiet.... the SECOND he is, plonk down the food bowl. Like I did with Kaeleigh, you can build it up a bit over time so that he's quiet for a few minutes before you feed him... but I agree that he's not associating noise vs quiet with not eating vs eating, BECAUSE when he does eventually shut up he still doesn't get his dinner... if you see what I mean.

Thanks Pix- these are the sort of ideas I am after. The problem I seem to be having here when asking for advice is that because the layout of my house, yard and pens it is hard if you haven't seen it to envision my problem.

If Vespa is inside, crated or not, when its dinner time there is no sooking. He sits just outside the kitchen (my dogs all know 'Get out of my kitchen!') wagging his tail. Doesn't matter how long I take to prepare tea, if its a long time he will go lay down somewhere, no sooking. The dinner stink kick up only happens when he is penned.

Vessies biggest reward is attention, and that is what he is seeking when he sooks. The pens are away from my house, and instantaneous negative/positive rewards or punishment doesn't work because me approaching him is a reward, I can't surprise him. As soon as I approach his pen with his dinner, he has his reward, and he sits and waits happily for the food. I am trying to eliminate the sooking in between my getting the bowls and actually bringing his food over and/or opening the door between him and the other dogs (he sooks because he can't see me, stops when the door is open). Obviously I want to feed him, and he has learn to behave when being fed in the pens. Same as in the morning- I want to eliminate the sooking between my alarm and me coming out. When I arrive home- eliminate the sooking between pulling up in my car and coming back out the front door to see the dogs. I can't yell from the house- when I do his ears go back and the tail starts- he has attention!

Already doing TOT with him.

[Cosmolo]

greytmate- i'm not suggesting the dog has a problem with routine- far from it. My point is that humans have a hard time with a consistent routine (in turn effecting the dogs routine from time to time) with the dog having no possible explanation for why the routine has changed.

In a large number of cases i find it is not possible to have a strict routine as the humans don't and it impacts the dog. The problem with the routine is the dogs anticipation of something happening (which can create anxiety in itself) OR the anxiety created when the expectation is not met.

[Guest Piximatosis]

If Vespa is inside, crated or not, when its dinner time there is no sooking. He sits just outside the kitchen (my dogs all know 'Get out of my kitchen!') wagging his tail. Doesn't matter how long I take to prepare tea, if its a long time he will go lay down somewhere, no sooking. The dinner stink kick up only happens when he is penned.

Now if I was you I'd just feed him inside then. It's avoiding the issue in a way, but if you can't think of a way to get around the other situation, I'd just say "to hell with it" and stop trying... especially as you do have this other option.

Vessies biggest reward is attention, and that is what he is seeking when he sooks. The pens are away from my house, and instantaneous negative/positive rewards or punishment doesn't work because me approaching him is a reward, I can't surprise him. As soon as I approach his pen with his dinner, he has his reward, and he sits and waits happily for the food. I am trying to eliminate the sooking in between my getting the bowls and actually bringing his food over and/or opening the door between him and the other dogs (he sooks because he can't see me, stops when the door is open).

I have the EXACT same problem with Kaeleigh. When I get home, in between getting out of the car and walking to the run, she does high pitched whines and barks that would burst your eardrums. She leaps three feet off the ground, pounds the other dogs into the floor and yodels. Essentially, I just try and clear that distance as fast as possible to minimise disturbance to my neighbours... once I'm near the run, she sits and waits while I open the door of the run, step clear, jump up and down (or whatever) and then say "okay" before she goes bolting out and does laps around the house. I can't think of any way to get around that - she's excited, and when she's excited she vocalises. Unfortunately that's just who she is. I can manage it to a certain extent but when I get home she is just TOO excited to listen to "shaddup" which normally elicits the response I want... if it doesn't I can't enforce it because I'm 50m away!

At the very least I can now have her sitting calmly and quietly once I GET to the run and she will wait (more or less) patiently until I say she can come out.

[squeak]

Just a couple of random thoughts, but might not be of any use, because I don't know much.

Is there any way you can hook up a shade or blind to his pen. Lower it when he sooks when you have his food (ie., remove your attention) and as soon as he is quiet, lift the blind and feed him.

My only other thought is to use a crate closer to the house at feed time and get him used to waiting and being quiet in there and gradually move the crate closer to the pens, where you want him to be.

[Greytmate]

greytmate- i'm not suggesting the dog has a problem with routine- far from it. My point is that humans have a hard time with a consistent routine (in turn effecting the dogs routine from time to time) with the dog having no possible explanation for why the routine has changed.

In a large number of cases i find it is not possible to have a strict routine as the humans don't and it impacts the dog. The problem with the routine is the dogs anticipation of something happening (which can create anxiety in itself) OR the anxiety created when the expectation is not met.

A strict clockwork routine is not always neccessary. But for a greyhound that is showing signs of anxiety (and without knowing more about this dog I cannot even say that the whinging is anxiety), the routine of getting a daily meal and a routine place to sleep is going to go a long way to reduce that anxiety.

Many people find that very young children can become stressed unless some sort of basic routine is established, and this also holds true for many greyhounds.

I don't feed my own dogs at exactly the same time each night, I understand what you are saying about creating anxiety through anticipation, and I don't want to create a rod for my own back. But a balance should be sought so that the animal gets what it needs to feel secure.

[BittyMooPeeb]

Hi ISH,

I stayed for a week with Gemma (ISH's sister) over christmas, so had my first experience of greyhound whinging. Gemma whinges in the morning, and when she is shut in her crate and wants to come out, and like Vespa, she can whinge for ever!

I cant really offer any advice though - 'whinging' is a concept I havent encountered with non-greyhound dogs - except to let you know that other grey's are the same.

Gemma will stop whinging once she has company (which is why my Mum now gets up at 6am and sleeps on the couch with Gemma till 8)

I found, with the greyhound pups, that being told off was a greater behaviour modifier than positive reinforcement. I dont know if this is relevant to older greys, or even to grey's in general though. So I used to 'Uh Uh" when they whinged in their crate at night to get them to be quiet, which worked.

Good luck! Gemma is a big, beautiful girl now