Lablover Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Ok thanks. My males were distracted today. In the training group, there was a bitch in season. Stamp tired to mount her quick smart naturally, but it was nice to have the opportunity to regain focus. I was happy he obeyed me, as I felt stupid for being distracted while I spoke to friends. Just a reminder to myself, which may help others? ie use every opportunity when distractions present themselves, whether our intention or not, was to test/train for another exercise (or command or concept). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 5, 2007 Author Share Posted January 5, 2007 Good point, use every distraction to advantage Well we went for a walk last night and I was firm with Eddie, I put my finger in my belt and anytime I felt the lead pull I stopped We walked up to the shops and back, on the way there we stopped maybe 20 times, on the way back we stopped maybe 5 I thank the weather a little lol, but mainly I think he got the idea that I was serious and wasn't going to put up with his silliness (he's not bad to walk necessarily, just he's been allowed to be in control adn go where he wants too long) Last night I let him know that I was in control, he could walk around and sniff but if that lead went tight, we stopped Stupid things like this we should have done ages ago, only I was too silly to realise the main difference between heeling and loose lead walking My short term goal, to get out of the car at kcc and have him walk loose lead into the off lead area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 now thats agood goal loose lead walking is often overlooked when you are involvd in so many activities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Shoemonster, what about if you start asking the dog to do a couple of things and then reward, rather than just one exercise. Build up slowly. This is what I like about having a third reinforcer word. So 'good' means 'keep going, you're doing the right thing but we haven't reached the end of the exercise yet'. Then after you've done a couple of things (say, start off heeling for thirty seconds, do one round of the figure eight and then end it with the key word, or clicker and primary reinforcer (food or a ball, whatever). Then create a bridge. Click, then turn and take a step or two away and then reward. So then slowly extend the time between the secondary reinforcer (click) and primary reinforcer (food) until you have a dog that will hear the click and walk back to the car for its food reward or ball. This can be done with patience and time but it takes a while to build up. Am I making sense? Hurry slowly is the motto, I reckon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 Yeah that makes sense, thanks, will start doing that as well, I use good boy alot, but yes or a click as my secondary reinforcer, so I will be able to tell him good boy through it and then he gets the food after the click I will work up the time between reinforcer and reward too, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Motivate with something other than food? Yes...that's what I do with my small breed dogs, tibbies. I get them to obey commands to get ALL the good things they like....a treat is just one. Pardon my soppiness...but even to get a pat or cuddle, they have to obey 'Sit' first. Before getting into the car for a drive (they love it!), they have to obey a command first. Before getting their leads on (they love going for walks)...yep, must obey a command first. This approach has a backhander, tho'. The tibs get to know that 'good' behaviours, like Sitting, lead to something good happening for them . So when I'm walking past them... one after another does a smart 'Sit' of its own accord. It looks like they're curtseying as the queen goes by! And I can hear the bottoms hitting the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 there is a huge diference between motivation and reward and chaning the motivator isnt what is needed for around the house compliance what would be the difference between having to show the treat or wave a toy around for heavy trianing for sports my trigger to get the dog fired up is simply saying we're working that means lots of oppurtunity for treats and toys and heaps of fun howevere when we're done i say all gone finished which means no more training but i still expect basic obedience if i say come come if i say sit sit. Around the house you do not want to have to go ge something everytime you need your dog to obey so its time for the dog to learn delay in reward i say sit you sit then we may go get a treat toy what ever have apat get on the couch. Remeber this is not a beginner dog this is an avanced dog saying i'll only do it if you have something good for me so why change the something good srry uhah you do what i say regardless of whether i have a treat or toy and then if you listen we'll discuss treats lol as for keep going signals we hve discussed this i have too good for heeling and moving exercises and hold for stationary onesbut the problem in theis case is not keeping going its complying n the first place rofl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 as for keep going signals we hve discussed this i have too good for heeling and moving exercises and hold for stationary onesbut the problem in theis case is not keeping going its complying n the first place rofl You are right, and I guess thats cos you know Eddie! Even I'm getting myself mixed up! Last night I started with treats on the table, and I walked around asked for basic things, sits, small heels and then I would say "yes" and go back to the table to reward, all this stuff you've told me before Stella, lol, I am having to retrain myself into not using the easy way of getting him to do something Do you think that there is any problem with using my hand as though I have a treat or should i be showing him that I have no treat but that I expect compliance anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 we often use many cues that we dont even see are there at first yes use your hand but i'd alsobe asking for basics with hands behind back sitting downstadning on a chair from behind a bench using just verbals then the same using just a signal really think about what your ody does and what you want for the end product for example connor has the best drop ever however he only does it at adistance if i move my foot a tiny bit while giving voice and and signal he will do just voice just hand but still has to have the foot somethig i never noticed till someone else saw it for trialling i cant move that foot so had to work really hard to get rid of it as an extra cue because i hadnt profed my signals in the above way he had developed a habit i didnt want naughty me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 7, 2007 Author Share Posted January 7, 2007 Oh good point I will do that too, alternate between just hand and voice signals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxagirl Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Eddie confuses me as he can be very dominant with some things but very submissive with others The more you say about Eddie, the more he sounds like my dog Bondi! Including this training problem .. i was also a briber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 7, 2007 Author Share Posted January 7, 2007 Its so much easier to train the dog than to train yourself isn;t it? No wonder he confuses me, I must confuse the hell out of him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Its why people say clicker cant work on kids the problem is actually that they bribe they say if you do this i will gve you this not see something well done and then reward the steps toward a bigger job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 7, 2007 Author Share Posted January 7, 2007 Yeah so true, just like that article on motivation/reward Hey Stella I put a video in the video section of Ed heeling for the tennis ball, its a bit small, but he is getting the picture Have also been working on control before the ball is thrown, ie he has to sit, and I have been gradually moving back away from him to get him to realise that people need space if they are gona throw it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 7, 2007 Author Share Posted January 7, 2007 (edited) Started using the tennis ball with Eddie out doing some heeling today I learnt a few things, the main one being if I'm using the tennis ball dont throw it as far as I do in this vid as he gets too revved up! Short throws work better Edited January 7, 2007 by shoemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloss344 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 The more you say about Eddie, the more he sounds like my dog Bondi! Including this training problem .. i was also a briber Bob too. I'm working on the same issue. Reducing treats/not bribing. There must be a few of these dogs around. This is a great informative thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Hi Shoey! Great vids of Ed heeling - I watched them all! You should be proud of yourself and him... he holds position well and you have his attention !!!!! *pats on the back*! I'd go back to the container idea. Perhaps put Mollie in a crate while training? Here's another tip aswell - when doing 'proper training' scrap the bait bag (I still use mine, just not for 'obedience practice').... simply coz you can't have it in the ring and it is a clear indicator to the dog that you have food . Have a bit of food in your pocket instead. BUT - heel/train or whatever, when you release... don't feed him from your pocket, have a play, get him revved up then say "get your biccies/ball/toy" or whatever and run with him to the container.... reward him there! This is perfect for training 'ring style' as the reward is always going to be out of the ring. when the judge says "release" you go silly, have pats and you can say to eddie "do you want you biccies" which usually causes them to go into a frenzy! But you don't say "get it" until you are out of the ring... then you run over and get the treats together (only, let Eddie eat them... I don't think they taste that good ). Do the same with the ball, rather than holding it etc... you may need to 'build up' to this a little ie: sometimes reward from you, other times reward away from you. Then you'll only have to reward from you for new behaviours.... It seems to work for me! Just a pointer on your heeling (I hope you don't mind!), I don't know how old one of the vids were, so you may have improved since then, but he seems to loose focus on the turns (I have the worst dog for that!). Perhaps try practicing 'static' heeling to keep his attention on you... click as he is coming around you in the correct position, then throw the food. It really helped me with my turns. This is an example of where I would reward with food from me! Good luck! I think you are going great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) I used to use smoked chicken and I shared it with Ed bloss, I'm glad this has helped you too as I was embarrassed first posting it! Leo, thanks Some of the vids are a bit older but the tennis ball was last night You are right with the lagging on turns, I will start throwing on turns to get him round quicker, thats a good idea, I had been trying to treat from my hand but it isn't enough motivation for him, throwing will get him running though! Great idea And I love the idea of using the food or ball to keep focus but not rewarding with it and revving him up before treating, that will be so helpful to get him off the bribes, as he will learn that it doesn't matter if I have them or not he will be rewarded from somewhere else, thankyou! I've stopped using the bag alot of the time, I need to get some more tops with pockets I think as my hoodie jumpers are great with the pcokets but its too hot (and i find pants pockets akward to get in and out of) I'm all motivated now! Edited January 8, 2007 by shoemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 cheat with the bag i wear a vest for trianing and i always wear a vest in the ring i never use a bum bag lol but vests are great especially ones with lots of pockets ehe Yes Bloss it is one of the most common trinaing problems people have and even many experienced trainers have it so your guys arent alone. For you lagging remember doodling use doodling to get the tur without heeling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 Yeah I do lots of doodling at home, I think I will doodle my turns with a throw of treat, as thats when the treat out of my hand isn't even motivation enough Yeah! I need a vest, I want a stafford club one so it has a stafford on it! I will have to get a different one for the moment though, they should be easy to find I guess being summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now