Cosmolo Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Dougie- i'd be interested to hear your definition of socialisation and what you do with pups before their second vaccination. What if the person in question has no children or other dogs in the household? Are you saying that safe socialisation in low risk areas/ situations is not necesary? How much do you know about a dogs critical period? Have you ever owned a dog with critical period issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollynme Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 There will always be conflicting information regarding anything and everything to do with dogs. Take the puppy out as soon as you can for socialisation. Don't take the puppy out till it's had it's full vaccination. Risk taking the puppy out for socialisation it will be much more beneficial for the pup and the risk of catching something is quite low. Take your puppy to puppy pre-school, recommended by your vet, they know whether there is an outbreak of parvo in the area. Don't take your pup to pre-school at the vets, thats where you take dogs who are sick. The list goes on and on and on and on. Who is ever right? only dodgy trainers would advocate ''socialisation'' any earlier than the second round of vaccinations. How do you know my dog trainer is dodgy? Do you know them personally? Have you seen them in action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet! Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I'm sure you have a great dog trainer uforia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 How do you know my dog trainer is dodgy? Do you know them personally? Have you seen them in action? You tell 'em uforia, you go girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) why anyone would want to rush their puppy out & about before their second vaccs has kicked in is beyond me.....they are still puppies at 14 to 40+ weeks......they are not going to turn into slavering beasts because they are not ''socialised'' at 6 weeks. a normal family environment, vaccs at 12 weeks....puppy out & about a couple or 7 days after that.....no wuckers. only dodgy trainers would advocate ''socialisation'' any earlier than the second round of vaccinations. Dougie - probably best you steer away from the training forums, it's not your forte. Oh and is it a couple of days or 7 days after the 12 week vacc? Edited January 10, 2007 by Staff'n'Toller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyesongTollrz Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 There's nothing wrong with getting a pup out early, assuming you are being sensible. My newest pup was at training (a private group on private property) by 8 weeks and playing with the dogs I train with. My adult dogs are out at different clubs training several nights a week and at trials on the weekend, so if she were to pick up something, it would just as likely be at home as it would be in someone elses backyard. She went to the agility nationals at 10 weeks of age. I had to travel from interstate, so she either came with me (but didn't run on the grounds) or she got left in a kennel. Which is the bigger health risk? Which is the bigger risk to her long term temperament? (BTW, her breeders were also there and had no problems with me taking her along.) I do advocate early training and socialisation, regardless of vaccinations. I've done titres at various ages on pups and not once, at any age, have they been shown to be under an acceptable level. I'm not advocating people take them into the middle of a dog park and let them loose, but puppy socialisation classes (with a good instructor), even training, should have no impact on the health of a healthy young pup, purchased from a reputable breeder, who follows a sensible health and vaccination protocol. I did originally keep pups at home until they were older, and I'll never do it again. Uforia, What I would suggest in your situation is NOT to pick your puppy up when she gets nervous (ever!), but to lure her onto the sidelines with some treats or a toy (whichever motivates her) and do some basic work with her. Do a couple of sits or drops, always with treats and big praise. Even simple attention exercises like "watch me" will help build her confidence and take her mind off her nerves about the other dogs around her. Teach her to focus on you, not on the dogs around her. If you have to step a bit further away from the other dogs to really get her attention, that's fine, but don't let her get away with being sooky and clingy. Gradually work her closer and closer (she probably won't even realise it if she's really focussed on you) to the other dogs. Your demeanour will also help her. If you're worried about the other dogs approaching or getting too rough, then she'll pick up on that and act nervy. If you're off to the side and working with her, you're focussed on her, you're not nervous, and she's getting praised. Approach the owner of one other dog after the class, and ask if they can have a meet n greet when it's not quite so overwhelming for her. If she's nervous and you give up the classes for now, she's only going to learn that sooking gets her out of the situation. Be very matter of fact with your behaviour around her. "This is life, get used to it." Even if she gets bumped and rolled by the other puppies, don't let yourself get upset. When I was training my youngster one day, she ran up to an adult dog doing agility (I knew the dog). It growled and rolled her over, not aggressively, but just a "back off, I'm working here". The owner freaked, but I said "no problems! Thanks for the life lesson!" My pup crawled back to me sooking, and I immediately started working her again, not even acknowledging that there had been a break. She got over it in about ten seconds, and she now knows not to run away and go up to dogs that are working. She needed to learn that lesson in life. If I'd have mollycoddled her, then she'd be a completely different dog. Just out of curiousity Uforia, do both you and your OH take your puppy to the training class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougie Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Dougie - probably best you steer away from the training forums, it's not your forte. this is the puppy forum....i know puppies.....puppies are my forte. i don't want to hear any of MY puppies is dead because some fool has advised against what i have told the new owners. anyone who advises anyone to ''get your puppy out & about to socialise it'' before it has had it's second round of vaccs is a moron. a thousand puppies could be socialised before the second vaccs without a prob..... the one that gets parvo & is dead in 24 hours could be yours. if your ''trainer'' is so damn good he/she will have no trouble socialising a puppy AFTER it has its full course of vaccinations.....if they can't.... .......get a ''real'' trainer.......too easy. ''real'' training schools wont accept any dog without a current vaccs certificate & puppies must be a minimum of 3 months....with an appropriate vaccs cert.....go figure? you don't have to be a rocket scientist....one has the welfare of the dogs at heart....the other is more concerned with their bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbiemax71 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I took my GSD girl to puppy preschool, she spent the most part of the first lesson under my legs, i didnt make a big fuss about it and by the end of the lesson she was starting to come out of her shell and play a little bit, by the end of the 4 week course she was the one that had to get pulled off the other pup when she got a bit over the top!( they only let 2 pups off lead at a time that were a simlar size) So dont give up, she will come round, just dont make too much of a fuss when she is sooking as you will be reinforcing the behavior and telling her its ok to be scared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollynme Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 Just out of curiousity Uforia, do both you and your OH take your puppy to the training class? Thanks SkyesongTollrz, your advice made perfect sense and yes we both take her puppy training class. We had the 2nd class last night and i am happy to report that for *most* of the lesson she was much better. Happily sniffing the other pups and generally curious about them. When training she was very focused on me and didn't let the others deter her. I did notice though that she tended to stick to the pups more around her size which is good as she probably feels less threatend by them and that she doesn't like tails wagging in her face Dougie - probably best you steer away from the training forums, it's not your forte. anyone who advises anyone to ''get your puppy out & about to socialise it'' before it has had it's second round of vaccs is a moron. Passing judgement before you even know the facts. People like you bring a good place like this down. Instead of offering constructive advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Myschafis~ Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Sorry but I agree with Dougie, your pup is too young to be out and about, her vaccinations haven't been completed and no decent respecting puppy preschool accepts pups that are well clear of having all their vac's done, this is roughly about the 3 months mark (12) weeks, yet yours is not quite 10 yet. Dougie's advise is extremely valid, the way it is put across is probably not ideal, but its to the point and correct. but when i noticed she was really getting distressed i picked her up to comfort her for abit and then put her back down. Others can disagree with me here, but in my opinion in this situation all you are doing is reassuring your pup that there is something to be frightened of, by picking her up when she is scared your telling her that there is something scary down there and that she should be scared, instead of doing that play with the other pups near her introduce her to one at a time and show her that they are good fun and there is nothing to worry about. Think of it like this, you have just walked in alone to a crowd of puppy who are bouncing around in your face all of them wanting to talk to you all at the same time, would that make you overwhelmed? Anyway best of luck, keep your baby at home till all the vac's are finished though Cheers, Katie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollynme Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 (edited) Thanks Katie. I assured her the first week but after advice from others i have stopped doing that now and didn't last night when she wanted me to. It's hard seeing her like that but i know it's better for her. However my pup is now 11 weeks and has had her final vaccination (the new one which can now be given at 10 weeks and is fully vaccinated by 11 weeks) so what is the problem? How much longer do you want me to keep her from socialising? As i said before, i'm taking the advice from my vet who i trust and is very reputable so i don't think i need to explain any more why i am taking her to puppy class at 11 weeks. Edited January 11, 2007 by uforia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toohey Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 (edited) Dougie makes some extremely valid points. Puppy owners need to carefully consider all the risks before they make the decision about whether to take the pup out before the final vaccinations have been given, because there ARE risks. Especially when you choose to partake in puppy schools run by vet clinics, which are populated during the day by sick animals. You should not be brushing aside and ridiculing the views of experienced breeders. Edited January 11, 2007 by Toohey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Myschafis~ Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Can you clarify all your pups vaccinations and what she was vaccinated against? 6 weeks - c3? 10 weeks - ?????? 12 weeks - ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollynme Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 Sure. At 6 weeks she had the C3 (parvo, hep and distemper) and at 10 weeks she had her final vaccination called Nobivac (which i believe is a new thing to Australia) where they now give the pup a combined injection where they will be fully vaccinated by 11 weeks (7 days after vacc). She was also given a squirt up the nose for kennel cough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Myschafis~ Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 (edited) What does Nobivac prevent? And why is it different to your usual C4 or C5? It looks to me as thought it isn't any better than a C3 or C4 or C5 - information on it varies extensively Edited January 11, 2007 by mickatie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Myschafis~ Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 For anyone interested this is how they suggest you vaccinate with Nobivac...Which has me wondering as to how you are able to send your pups home at 8 weeks of age if that is when they get their first vaccination. The normally recommended vaccination regime using Nobivac DHPPi Lepto Pi and KC would be as follows: 8 weeks Nobivac DHPPi + Nobivac Lepto 10 weeks Nobivac DHPPi + Nobivac Lepto 1st annual booster Nobivac DHPPi + Nobivac Lepto 2nd annual booster Nobivac Pi + Nobivac Lepto 3rd annual booster Nobivac DHPPi + Nobivac Lepto 4th annual booster Nobivac Pi + Nobivac Lepto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I think YOU are a moron. Passing judgement before you even know the facts. People like you bring a good place like this down. Instead of offering constructive advice all you can do is call people 'morons' and 'dodgy'. Bit immature perhaps? Maybe you need to go back to human pre-school and learn some manners. I'm confused. Where did Dougie call you a moron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollynme Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 He was calling my vet a moron, not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollynme Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 What does Nobivac prevent? And why is it different to your usual C4 or C5?It looks to me as thought it isn't any better than a C3 or C4 or C5 - information on it varies extensively From what i can remember, Nobivac prevents parvo, distemper, kennel cough and hepatitis. I don't think it's any different to your usual C4 and C5 vaccs, however the advantage of this is that it is given at 10 weeks and after 7 days the pup is fully vaccinated therefore allowing it to go out and socailise and see the world earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Myschafis~ Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 What does Nobivac prevent? And why is it different to your usual C4 or C5? It looks to me as thought it isn't any better than a C3 or C4 or C5 - information on it varies extensively From what i can remember, Nobivac prevents parvo, distemper, kennel cough and hepatitis. I don't think it's any different to your usual C4 and C5 vaccs, however the advantage of this is that it is given at 10 weeks and after 7 days the pup is fully vaccinated therefore allowing it to go out and socailise and see the world earlier. Still confused, I don't see how this product is any different to a regular C4 or C5, except they are vaccinating at different times, you could vaccinate with a C4 or C5 at 10 weeks if you want, so whats the difference I still think pups should be vaccinated at around 6 weeks, so by 8 weeks they will be covered to go to their new home, where as this vaccine is saying vaccinate at 8 weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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