Lablover Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 (edited) CTD, I have been wondering, why you asked this question. Just interested. I am be off completely, but is it is relation to your young border collie? The two washouts (had good instincts) but were not suitable for high level retrieving trials. Good as hunting dogs. But I am nooo hunter. Having problems with the editing. Sorry, so hot, just returned from training. Dogs were not stressed, they could cool off in a small lake. Edited January 5, 2007 by Lablover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted January 5, 2007 Author Share Posted January 5, 2007 No I was just curious, no reason. I just find it interesting. I am enjoying my border collie she is really interesting and totally different to a gun dog, it is like owning a different animal. The way she responds to other dogs and people is completely different. She runs up to total strangers and sits in front of them for a pat. LOL I did not teach her that. She tries to herd Josh. She somehow gets older dogs to play with her. It is really funny she is just walking around and suddenly a dog comes up and starts play bowing to her, a 18 month old german shepherd did it to her and tonight a Saint Bernard!!!! I was watching very carefully. I took her swimming today at Cannon Creek, fantastic, people and dogs in swimming. Owning a border collie is learning curve for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMonaro Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I have sadly rehomed 2 dogs, both that were at a level 4 in obedience (both by my 12 to 14 yr old daughter) eg. almost ready to compete They were rehomed because they failed health testing. The 2nd I would of kept in a heartbeat to do obedience with, if it wasnt for dog limits. We breed and we show as well. This dog was also shown, but I sadly couldnt keep her. Very very sadly too I must admit. :cool: My daughter was given the option to keep her for obedience, but her heart is really in the showing side of things, and she wants to keep showing. I would of held onto her longer for my youngest to learn showing with, but the right home just happened to come up sooner than expected. Both dogs were rehomed very easily and both new owners are absolutely wrapped in the fact that they are so obedient and well trained. Although I would of been happy for the 2nd one to go to an obedience home, I am still happy that she has gone to live with 3 kids to love her all to herself (well shared with a cattle dog that she gets on very well with).....as I think she had great potential in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rastus_froggy Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I read the other thread on re-homing dogs too, it really got me thinking and I have spoken to a number of people about it since coming up with some varied opinions. Personally I could never do it, I become WAY too attached. With both the dogs I currently have I knew from the first moment I saw them that they were the right dog for me. One I saw on the net, as a 2year old, since getting him he has had issues - only 2 actually but one was MAJOR and for this he has had therapy(yes you may think now that I am crazy) BUT I took him on as a rescue dog, not knowing anything of his past and I felt it was my responsibilty to work him through his issues. He has turned out to be a great dog with lots of work. But I hold nothing against anyone who rehomes their dogs as Im sure they all have good reasons and make sure that they go to great homes. I would never cut it as a breeder I would end up with WAY toomany dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 I was just curious as it seems it is more common with breeders than obedience people, was wondering if obedience/performance people have a stronger bond. I am not critizing anyone either. I mean I have suggested ex - guide dogs (pups that didn;'t make the grade) as pets. A person getting an ex obedience/performance dog is most likely getting a well trained dog. I can also see the point of view that the dog is going to a single dog home. I once left Josh over night at someone's house, as they were using him for a flyball comp the next day. He kept sooking he thought I left him. He was so happy when we picked him up. Check out the new forum, videos to share, part of the photo section. In the puppy video section there is a great link with puppy's learning service dog taks, it is about the 4 message along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I was just curious as it seems it is more common with breeders than obedience people, was wondering if obedience/performance people have a stronger bond. Hell no, breeders do become very attached to their dogs, its not like they are heartless and get rid of dogs without second thought. Too suggest otherwise is ludicrous. With obedience/performance dogs, the dog is only as good as its owner, if it isnt making the grade it is the owners fault and they should look at how to improve. You cant very well change a dogs physical appearance. Breeders rehome some dogs because if a certain dog isnt what they want their future breed to be like they cant very well keep every dog as they wouldnt be able to breed and keep puppies from litters to carry on with. Most councils have a dog limit (most here are 2) now how would a breeder be able to improve the breed if the dog they ran on from their litter doesnt cut it? When i start breeding, if required i will rehome a dog or two if it means i can keep breeding and hopefully get an excellent all round Toller. It wont be easy but it will be necessary. Really to try and compare the two is impossible, one is about keeping a breed alive and true the other is a sport. Sorry if it doesnt make sense, i know what i want to say but cant quite word it well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjk05 Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 With obedience/performance dogs, the dog is only as good as its owner, if it isnt making the grade it is the owners fault and they should look at how to improve. You cant very well change a dogs physical appearance. I don't think that is strictly true. Some breeds have traits (physical, mental, instinctive) that make them more suited to certain activities than others, and individual dogs within breeds vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clover Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 (edited) With obedience/performance dogs, the dog is only as good as its owner, if it isnt making the grade it is the owners fault and they should look at how to improve. I am not sure about that, i have seen people work their butts off with some dogs and the dogs just dont have what it takes. I have worked my ass off with Elvis but he is not a brilliant performance dog.. when he wants to be he can be great (He is a chicken lol). I dont know what more i can or could have done with him. I myself would never rehome a dog if it decided it did not want to be say a Flyball dog, there are plenty of other sports out there to try . Edited January 6, 2007 by Clover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 With obedience/performance dogs, the dog is only as good as its owner, if it isnt making the grade it is the owners fault and they should look at how to improve. You cant very well change a dogs physical appearance. I don't think that is strictly true. Some breeds have traits (physical, mental, instinctive) that make them more suited to certain activities than others, and individual dogs within breeds vary. So maybe not 100% true, but you wouldnt get something like a Dachshund for agility and then rehome it because its not good enough. Ive worked my arse off with Nova too, but we have gotten to the stage where im not going to give him up after all i have done, we will just keep plogging along. Though i accept 100% responsibility of him, he has been a pain in the arse to train because i made him like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHRP Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 In my experience rehoming due to lack of performance in field events is rare, but that's not to say it doesn't happen. Interesting Working Setters. My observations is that in regards to performance dogs, it is the Retrieving trial dogs that are most likely to be rehomed if they don't 'make the grade'. I'm talking the more traditional breeds too, not the silly folk who try to get their Utility gundogs to be retrievers I agree that many "issues" can be solved by training, but I also think a top competition field dog needs certain natural drive and confidence that some dogs just don't have. I also believe that some times it's a case of the dog doesn't suit the handlers style of training.... I know of rehomes of obedience and agility dogs too, but it seems far less common than show dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 Dogs are all a learning experience. Josh was my first flyball dog and obedience dog. I worked out my mistakes and then took it into account for the next dog. Tollersowned haven't you found Darcy much easier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 yes i have a gorgeous sheltie ready for trialling has the nicest heeling and does most his ud but his structural problems will stop him enering the ring he wont trial so no its not just p to the trainer also breedign and showing is a hobbie if we were really preserving breeds then each breed would still be working in its original field and i know plenty that cant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 My toller gets a sore back when he does weaving so I don't do agility anymore with him. I have also seen someone who had a german shepherd who was very aggressive yet she had done all the socializing and it still turned out that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 CTD - Yes i have found Darcy easier, not sure what you are getting at though. He has been much easier because through trial and error with Nova i found methods that work better, he was raised better, he can be a top performing dog very easily.....if he had a better trainer that is. Have you had Moses back checked out? If it gets sore doing weaving i wouldnt want to be doing much else till i find out what is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cala Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Rehoming does happen with obedience dogs, I have known quite a few people that have rehomed them due to not working as well as they had hoped. When I was showing it was more prevalent..... a gentleman (?!!!) in Sydney used to buy up good quality puppies and if they didn't get 3 1st's in their first 3 shows out they would go to pet homes. In the end no one would sell him anything, after a good talking to from someone her desperately wanted a puppy from......they told him okay BUT on the PROVISO that you keep him for at least a year and he is to come back to us if he doesn't work out. That dog became a champion in 18 months. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Rehoming does happen with obedience dogs, I have known quite a few people that have rehomed them due to not working as well as they had hoped.When I was showing it was more prevalent..... a gentleman (?!!!) in Sydney used to buy up good quality puppies and if they didn't get 3 1st's in their first 3 shows out they would go to pet homes. In the end no one would sell him anything, after a good talking to from someone her desperately wanted a puppy from......they told him okay BUT on the PROVISO that you keep him for at least a year and he is to come back to us if he doesn't work out. That dog became a champion in 18 months. Sue I personally find that revolting. To keep buying puppies like that, i dont know of anyone who does that thank god. My posts are in regard to puppies that i have bred and ran on, not bought. If that makes my posts easier to understand lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Working_Setters Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 In my experience rehoming due to lack of performance in field events is rare, but that's not to say it doesn't happen. Interesting Working Setters. My observations is that in regards to performance dogs, it is the Retrieving trial dogs that are most likely to be rehomed if they don't 'make the grade'. I'm talking the more traditional breeds too, not the silly folk who try to get their Utility gundogs to be retrievers I agree that many "issues" can be solved by training, but I also think a top competition field dog needs certain natural drive and confidence that some dogs just don't have. I also believe that some times it's a case of the dog doesn't suit the handlers style of training.... I know of rehomes of obedience and agility dogs too, but it seems far less common than show dogs. Hi FHR - I'm about to join you in those ranks of "silly folk", I'm taking in a Wei from a friend (breeder) and will be very interested to see what we can achieve in retrieving trials and possibly tracking (if time permits). I agree completely with your post, we both know of driven/highly-competitive retriever trial folk that have gone through their share of "wash-outs" on the way to collecting championship ribbons. When I made my comments about "field events" I was thinking of Pointer and Setter field trial folk. These dogs are slower to mature than retrievers, (particularly in the case of my ISs) and their work is in large part instinctive, rather than taught, as is the case with retrievers. Much of the "training" of a P/S is in fact exposure, getting the dog afield amongst wild birds in widely varying terrain and climatic conditions. It takes time and repeated exposure for dogs to learn to work well on wild birds. These dogs need time to mature before you can see their best and I'd personally need to give a P/S until at least the age of 3 before declaring it a "dud". At which point, if the dog showed no desire to find birds, I would seek to rehome in a good pet home. (3 years is a long time, which is why I highly recommend to newbies they select the breed, the breeder and the breeding with the utmost care). I'm not sure if the P/S FT people are less competitive than the RT folk (I would say most P/S FT competitors are primarily hunters that also FT, whereas “non-hunting, competition only” dogs are more common in RTs), but in the main most P/S FT competitors (not breeders) only have a couple of competition aged dogs, and they are likely to keep those dogs their entire lives. Perhaps there are just so few FTs in Oz, and it takes so much time and training to get a dog to FT standard, most FT competitors run on their current dogs despite any "issues", rather than start out with a new pup, a pup that might not be any better and could certainly be worse, than their current dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Good post Working Setters. Good luck with the Wei BTW.......but as you plan to train and trial in retrieving trials, I have to ask wei LOL, you do not buy a labrador? Working line labrador of course!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Working_Setters Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) Hi Lablover, "Wei not a working lab?" That's seriously funny!! You're correct of course, anybody that's serious about going to the top in the retrieving world should start out with a couple of well bred working lab pups. The truth is that I'm just dabbling a little in retrieving and RTs, my main interest remains field work and FTs. I've had an interest in Weis for a long time, I admire their courage, intelligence and muscular physique beautifully displayed under that short grey coat. I'm also fond of Utility dogs in general, they are really quite different to my Setters, and Weis are amongst the "least Setter like" of the utility breeds (which I consider to be a good thing, why get another "setter like" dog when I already have two fine ISs?). Besides RTs, I’m planning to use the Wei for tracking and hunting (deer). All that said I'd not have a purchased a Wei pup just at present, however circumstances are such that a friend of mine has a young adult Wei that they are finding a bit of a handful and the dog is under-utilised as a result. I'd like to "dabble" in some retrieving and from what I've seen this dog has potential, I think I'll be able to sort out some of this dog's issues, which are mainly dominance related. We have reached an agreement where-by I took on the dog and see what I can do. It will be an interesting journey for both of us (me and the Wei I mean), if I'm (we’re) successful I'll look forward to seeing you at some RTs latter in the year. If we can work our way up to being competitive in Restricted, I’ll be well pleased. Edited January 8, 2007 by Working_Setters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Are you getting tired of grooming all the burrs out of those Setter coats WS?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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