Toohey Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 My girl has several nails which for some time have been splitting way back past the quick. The quick itself seems to have dried up and just has flakey moveable sides around them. They don't cause her to limp at all, and I can touch them and they feel solid in the pads, but when I trim them up she is not happy. I can't take a decent pic as she is black and they would not show up. Am considering having the split ones removed under anaesthetic and will see a vet about it this week. Has anyone had this problem and had nails removed? If so, does it affect the dog in any way to not have nails? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 (edited) My girl has several nails which for some time have been splitting way back past the quick. The quick itself seems to have dried up and just has flakey moveable sides around them. Do you normally 'grind' them to trim them, or do you 'clip'? Am considering having the split ones removed under anaesthetic and will see a vet about it this week. Hhhhmmm ........ could you perhaps investigate diet/dietary supplements first? Can't say I'm keen on the idea of removing before all else has been tried. Has anyone had this problem and had nails removed? If so, does it affect the dog in any way to not have nails? I can't answer this question, Toohey. If there was no/little risk of infection (or more serious damage) then I'd say don't worry too much. IMO, better to have the nails there than not. Just a guess, but I think it would depend on which nails are being removed - could removal affect her natural and proper gait/movement? If so, you might end up creating an imbalance which could go on to irrepairably affect joints later on. Edited December 27, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toohey Posted December 27, 2006 Author Share Posted December 27, 2006 Thanks for replying Erny, I clip her nails usually, but tentatively as she is black. I had wondered about her diet, she is on a natural diet with lots of variety... lots of meaty bones, fruit,veg, yoghurt, sardines, egg and a teaspoon of missing link every day, some dry occasionally. She does not get much though, as she is a porky cocker. I Have cut her right back in recent months. I have been trimming the affected nails backa little every day, in the hope the cracked and open sections will grow out but it does not seem to be happening. She runs off lead a lot, mainly on grass. When I look at them, what comes to mind is perhaps they need filling with polyfilla or superglue (just kiddin), but if there was a natural and safe equivalent that would allow the nail to grow out and hold them firm without allowing further damage to occur, that would might do the trick. Doi you think a calcium supp of some sort might help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 (edited) I'm sorry .... I don't really know what the best supplement would be. I'm sure others here will be able to offer more help than I. However, as a starter, HERE's a link to an article regarding canine nails. Much of it is goopligoch to me ............. I'd need to spend time checking up each medical term in each heading (this is not impossible) to determine what it is. Would probably need pictures to help identify. The article talks of fungi. I'm not suggesting that's what your dog has (although there does seem to be reference to dryness and flakiness) but I think it is worth you looking into further. Certainly, IMO, worth investigating as the solution would quite possibly be less dramatic than nail removal, if this is possible. Either way, if I were you and you were still entertaining idea of nail removal, I'd consult a specialist Vet (as opposed to GP Vet) before making that decision. Edited December 27, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianto Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 could it be fungal, like athletes foot in humans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I clip/cut Sways nails, and they seems to split/splinter as they are crushed just before the cut happens. I have now purchased a Drenmel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vehs Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 With grooming cockers I see a lot of foot and nail problems caused by moisture - if her feet aren't already trimmed tightly I would look at doing that - complete nail removal seems completely unnecessary if she's only worried about them when you play with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toohey Posted December 27, 2006 Author Share Posted December 27, 2006 I did not think abou the possibilty of disease, thanks for your ideas. As for the fungus, yes, she often has wet feet being a cocker, but as she is a pet I keep them trimmed very close, and blowdry in between her toes every day with the Oldfield. That may not have been enough, I don't know. I am meticulous with their grooming, as I keep them in full coat and let them run off lead every day, so I have to be Because they don't seem to worry her, I have not been too concerned, but am just keeping an eye on them at present. It is 2 nails on one foot, and one nail on all the other feet at this stage. Thanks again. Think I will get the vet to check them out, maybe take a scraping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 (edited) I clip/cut Sways nails, and they seem to split/splinter as they are crushed just before the cut happens. I have now purchased a Drenmel The friction heat from the Dremmel can cause the flaking/cracking .... that's why I asked if the nails were clipped or ground. Edited December 27, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I clip/cut Sways nails, and they seem to split/splinter as they are crushed just before the cut happens. I have now purchased a Drenmel The friction heat from the Dremmel can cause the flaking/cracking .... that's why I asked if the nails were clipped or ground. Something i had better keep an eye on then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toohey Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 (edited) Well the vet took one look at her nails and decided that it MUST be dietary. She thought 60-70% raw meaty bones is FAR too much and I should be feeding a dry diet like Euk with 2 bones a week. She even took her out the back and asked opinions of several other vets and they felt it must be dietary as well. She said there are no signs of infection so thought it unlikely to be a disease process. She said there was no point taking any scrapings as unlikely it would show anything, but if it persisted maybe blood tests down the track might be an idea. She also considered they might be traumatised, but the fact that I keep them short and neat, and she does not bounce around on hard surfaces, didn't fit that idea. She then examined her all over, and considered that her excellent condition and health, along with the fact that she has been on this diet all her five years, AND the fact that only some nails and not all are affected, that it probably was NOT dietary. But, she wants me to try her on a mostly Euk diet anyway and see if it improves her nails. A mystery. Edited December 28, 2006 by Toohey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianto Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Maybe you should try and change some ingredients in your raw diet before changing to kibble. What's in your dogs raw diet at the moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 A suggestion - why not contact a holistic vet/therapist and seek their advice. I can't see that feeding Eukanuba dry food is going to be better than what you are providing. Could the Vets in question, seeing as they seem to understand their Euk diet fairly well, give you some idea of the nutrient balance Euk would give where yours does not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenni Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Hi just letting you know our experience, our little one started with this and developed into more of them splitting and getting worse we ended up going to a specialist who took a culture from under his nails and discovered this was from pancreatitas (hope spelling is right) a low fat diet was then put in place, plus other things. Please understand that this did not cure the nails that were already damaged but stopped the others from going that way. Maybe this is something for you to look at, but from experience no matter how much you trust and love your vet get a second, third opinion and all good vets will recommend you to do this and not recomend someone, its up to you. It costs money but they are worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toohey Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 Hi Yvonne, she is on mostly BARf as described in post three. She does occasionally get dry and box one biscuits. I vary it up a lot. The three are all on the same diet, but she is the only one with the problem. Erny, the vet admitted she had little knowledge of natural diets and was recommending Euk as that is what she has been taught and is familiar with. Lenni, thanks for your input. Pancreatitis do you mean? Did your dog have any other symptoms? Skye has been restricted for the last few weeks and I was pleased to see she had lost half a kilo today when I weighed her, but she still needs to lose another two kilos. A holistic vet is a good suggestion, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenni Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Lenni, thanks for your input. Pancreatitis do you mean? Yes, later he then showed more signs of the pancreatitis, he used to chase his feet, Sorry this is so hard for me and should not have come on this site, he live to 17 and half despite all he went through and we lost him this year. His toe nails starting splitting 4 years ago so please dont worry, I just wanted to say to get a culture test done as it will let you know what is going on. The diet will take time to tell and maybe you need a different solution before then. I wish you all the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianto Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Hi Toohey, sorry I should have been more specific. What RMB's are you feeding, chicken, roo, beef? Did the split nails start after a change in her diet or when you started cutting her food back? If you can afford it http://www.naturalvet.com.au/ at Russell Lea. The initial visit is 1 hour and from memory is about $170. They take a full history and can advise you on what changes you might make to her diet. They can prescribe traditional, homeopathic & chinese herbal medicines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 O.K. Nails need iron, zinc, calcium ,protein and anti - oxidents . [Vitamins A, D and E] The raw meaty bones diet should be covering this as far as your minerals are concerned so all you need is to add a childrens multi vitamin to make sure you're covering the rest. Based on what you're feeding all should be covered already but the vitamins are suseptible to damage through heat, storage etc. Vitamin E for example can be destroyed by freezing and too much vitamin C can show similar symptoms in dogs as well. It may also just be as simple as using a blunt blade to clip the nails as this is the greatest cause of split nails. Because of this a grinder is a preferrable way to keep the nails down . One of the very best things for nails and joints is good old gelatine and it also comes in handy to put in with barf patties etc as it makes the dog feel more full and helps in keeping calories down . I wouldnt go with the Eukanuba in a fit but you already knew I would say this If it is in fact dietary then just add a multi vitamin and mineral and it will do a better job than any commercial diet anyway . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toohey Posted December 29, 2006 Author Share Posted December 29, 2006 (edited) Thanks Steve. That's pretty much what I decided to anyway then I read the replies here and the brains starts ticking over and you start thinking of underlying disease and metabolic problems. Yvonne, they get different sorts over the week... lamb necks, chicken necks and wings, meaty chuck bones and brisket, sometimes a marrow bone cut up. Dunno if she needs a $170 consult at the moment, but thanks for the link. Sorry about your dog Lenni, but hey, I hope my kids live to 17.. great age Edited December 29, 2006 by Toohey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toohey Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 (edited) Just an update here, my girl has become sore and lame and is currently being treated for a secondary infection. The latest vet she has seen is still fairly stumped, but is researching the matter for me. The amazing Steve has hit on a probable diagnosis however, and these links she gave me show exactly what might be going on here.... I have sent them to my vet. http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings...mp;Category=410 http://www.bloodaxe.com/SLO/SLO1.jpg http://www.bloodaxe.com/SLO/SLO2.jpg http://www.bloodaxe.com/SLO/SLO3.jpg http://www.bloodaxe.com/SLO/SLO4.jpg http://www.bloodaxe.com/SLO/SLO5.jpg http://www.bloodaxe.com/SLO/SLO6.jpg http://www.beaconforhealth.org/Onchodystrophy.htm this is the death stare I got after trimming the fur back and cleaning around her nails just now. They are quite sore Edited January 25, 2007 by Toohey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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