C5 Vaccinations

[Teandell]

I have heard some horror stories about the C5 vaccination and that the vaccination schedule overall is ecessive. Has anyone had any personal experience with contraindications of C5. The reason I am asking is that I have been reluctant to give my guys the C5 due to stories heard and then recently enquired about boarding and was told that it was a mandatory requirement for borading establishments. So if you want to board your dog you have to risk giving the C5. :rolleyes:

[tramissa]

It is mandatory at most boarding kennels.

My girl was given a C5 last year (first year I owned her - she was 8 1/2 then) and had a bad reaction. Vomitting, runny poo (can't spell dia-whatever).

This year my new vet is great. He offered to do a C4 as I wasn't boarding her with the lepto component (which she has never had before - we moved to FNQ where there have been a few lepto cases this year) rather than the C5. He thought the Bortadella (sp?) component which is what is added to the C4 to make it a C5 is what caused her problems last time. He also said instead of doing it Fri afternoon I should bring her in on Monday morning and he would keep her there all day to keep an eye on her in case it wasn't that part that caused her to be ill last time.

Long story short, C5 = very sick puppy and frightened owner

C4 = no problems whatsoever - was gutsing her food that night, running around like a loony, no upset tummy at all, normal stools etc.

I will never, EVER vacc with a C5 again.

[Teandell]

tramissa there te type of stories I've heard. So what would you do if you did have to board her.

[tramissa]

I wouldn't. There are people around now that I can leave her with, or worst case would be I'd put her on a plane to either my old housemate in Sydney, her previous owner or her breeder.

There are some boarding kennels around that will accept titre test results so I'd look into that as well. There's also agencies like Don't Fret Pet etc. Might cost a little more, but it's worth it to me to have my girl not go through that.

Edited to add, my vet is of the opinion that a C4 is enough coverage for her and that the chances of catching whatever the C5 protects against is so minimal here that it's not worth bothering with. He only ever does C5 on owners that insist or if he knows a dog is boarded regularly.

Edited December 21, 2006 by tramissa

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Every *reputable* boarding kennel operator will insist upon every boarding animal being vaccinated with a C5 or higher vaccine within the previous xxx-months, usually within the past 11 months. Or if the animal is staying beyond the 12-mth point from previous vaccination, a current vaccination (that is, one done at least 14 days previous to arrival in kennels). The reason this is requested is to reduce the likelihood of infectious diseases being released to every animal at the facility. As many people know, while Kennel Cough isn't generally a "serious" or life-threatening condition, it IS nasty for the dog that catches it, it does take additional management of the animal so inflicted, and it spreads like wildfire so virtually every dog in the immediate area will come down with it.

With some of the other diseases such as Parvo Virus, being highly transmissable AND being virulent in the environment for up to 12 months, any kennel facility would be forgiven for requesting evidence of vaccination - the outbreak of a Parvo episode in a boarding kennel environment would mean no business for up to a year. I'm not sure that many kennels would take such a risk and if you found one that does, you wouldn't leave your own dog there, would you?

I would RUN AWAY from any boarding kennel operator that didn't insist on evidence of C5 or higher vaccine within the previous 11 months. :rolleyes:

Oh, and for those owners that don't want to vaccinate, they also don't use boarding kennels but may find a private dog-minder to come to their own home instead.

[Dogsrules]

I used C5 for the adult dogs that I have and so far encounter no problem. But as I am not planning to put them in boarding kennels, my Vet advise me to do C3 vaccinations from now on as the chances of them contracting kennel cough is very small. Good on my wallet as well :rolleyes:

Edited December 21, 2006 by Dogsrules

[Flaves]

Well, when Mitchi had her 3rd C5, she had a reaction. Swelling etc. Yes very frightening and terrible however, next year when she has her booster, the vet will give her a shot of antihistamine 20 minutes before she has the vaccination as a precaution.

As someone who has had 2 dogs, who are FULLY vaccinated, have Kennel Cough recently, i will get tehmdone with a C5 each year.

We go to training and they need to be done for that but also we go to dog oarks and i want my fur kids to have the best possible chance of not catching something.

Edited December 21, 2006 by Kristie

[Georgie-boy]

Why not ask for the intranasal bordatella component for C5 rather than the injectable? The intranasal will still protect - providing you give it at least 2 weeks prior to boarding.

[peibe]

I have used the intranasal vaccinations on rescue dogs coming into care and every single one got a shocking case of kennel cough

[Dogsfevr]

Have used c5 for over 20 plus years on many many dogs with no issues.

We run boarding kennels & yes it is a requirement that all clients have C5 plus is a code of ethics of CABA membership

[bloss344]

I have used the intranasal vaccinations on rescue dogs coming into care and every single one got a shocking case of kennel cough

Mine too, my older dog got quite ill. She'd managed not to get kc for the first twelve years of her life without vaccinations. The following year I did C5 and no problems. Apparently quite a few dogs react to the intranasal.

[Georgie-boy]

Nothing is going to protect against Kennel cough 100% and yes I'm sure that some dogs do react to the intranasal like the injection - everything is a risk. It was simply a suggestion to give the OP some further information to allow them to make an informed decision.

[UltimatePup]

It's a terrible shame that so many boarding kennels, and even the association, are so far behind the times on advised vaccination protocols. I would stay well clear of any establishment that is unaware that annual vaccinations are now advised against*. I agree to look for one which accepts titre test results, not only to protect your dog from unnecessary risk but also because titre tests are superior evidence of actual immunity - a record of vaccination merely proves that the jab has been given but not necessarily that immunity has been acheived.

*e.g. 2003 UK Vets Assoc info':

* The immune systems of dogs and cats mature fully at six months and any modified live virus (MLV) vaccine given after that age produces immunity that is good for the life of that pet. [Note: Provided that it 'takes', hence titre tests can help.]

* If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, ...there is little or no effect; the pet is not 'boosted', nor are more memory cells induced.

* Not only are annual boosters for canine parvovirus and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to potential risks of allergic reactions and immune-mediated haemolytic anaemia.

* There is no scientific documentation to back up label claims for annual administration of MLV vaccines.

...In light of data now available showing the needless use and potential harm of annual vaccination, we call on our profession to cease the policy of annual vaccination. ...Politics, tradition or the economic well-being of veterinary surgeons and pharmaceutical companies should not be a factor in making medical decisions."

"...Immunological memory provides durations of immunity for core infectious diseases that far exceed the traditional recommendations for annual vaccination. ...immunity induced by vaccination is extremely long lasting and, in most cases, lifelong."

UP

[Dogsfevr]

Ultimate pup oh so wrong infact the boarding associations have very indepth meetings with the manufactures & there head honchos yearly & this year the 3 yearly was the topic & infact you learn a whole lot more from the horses mouth.

Titre tests do not prove anything except at the time the tests where high,next week they can be low.

All kennels are very aware of vaccs & the views of some people but until there is legal guarantess to the claims of titres,vacc & all other stuff vacations are the safe guard for liability.When you work in this industry & have to pay out insurance etc etc you can critize all you want.

I now off a kennel that accepts homopathic/titre & they have had more outbreaks than kennels that accept yearly vaccs

[morgan]

Every *reputable* boarding kennel operator will insist upon every boarding animal being vaccinated with a C5 or higher vaccine within the previous xxx-months, usually within the past 11 months. Or if the animal is staying beyond the 12-mth point from previous vaccination, a current vaccination (that is, one done at least 14 days previous to arrival in kennels). The reason this is requested is to reduce the likelihood of infectious diseases being released to every animal at the facility. As many people know, while Kennel Cough isn't generally a "serious" or life-threatening condition, it IS nasty for the dog that catches it, it does take additional management of the animal so inflicted, and it spreads like wildfire so virtually every dog in the immediate area will come down with it.

With some of the other diseases such as Parvo Virus, being highly transmissable AND being virulent in the environment for up to 12 months, any kennel facility would be forgiven for requesting evidence of vaccination - the outbreak of a Parvo episode in a boarding kennel environment would mean no business for up to a year. I'm not sure that many kennels would take such a risk and if you found one that does, you wouldn't leave your own dog there, would you?

I would RUN AWAY from any boarding kennel operator that didn't insist on evidence of C5 or higher vaccine within the previous 11 months.

Oh, and for those owners that don't want to vaccinate, they also don't use boarding kennels but may find a private dog-minder to come to their own home instead.

There are *reputable* boarding kennels that don't insist on C5s or annual vaccinations.

There are *reputable* boarding kennel operators who are fully aware of just how many dogs that have had C5s within the previous 3 months actually get kennel cough once they are in the kennel, but the dogs who have only had C3s don't catch it from them.

C5s are only supposed to be effective for 6 mths anyway, so anything over that is pointless for those that actually believe that C5s prevent kennel cough.

There are *reputable* boarding kennels that accept titre testing or nosodes.

Personally, I would prefer a kennel that DIDN'T insist on vaccinations every 11 mths, as I would not want my dog being exposed to all that shed virus from dogs being newly vaccinated.

Parvo and kennel cough might cause massive problems in rescue situations and pounds, with highly stressed dogs with questionable nutrition status, but is hardly a huge threat in a well run kennel.

In Victoria kennels are required by law to demand annual C5s, but in NSW it is up to the individual operator to decide what they deem to be acceptable.

The whole point of annual C5s is for kennels to cover their butts legally, not for the benefit of the dogs.

[New Age Outlaw]

Ultimate pup oh so wrong infact the boarding associations have very indepth meetings with the manufactures & there head honchos yearly & this year the 3 yearly was the topic & infact you learn a whole lot more from the horses mouth.

But doesn't the "horses mouth", in this case the drug manufacturers (I assume that's whom you refer to), have a vested interest to continue to encourage people to believe that annual C5s are necessary. I am just a humble dog owner, and I confess I am in two minds on this issue and I intend to do further research, but I personally would be taking the word of a company selling the product with a grain of salt. Given the questionable history of drug companies who provide human drugs, I admit I am a little sceptical of drug companies generally. This is not a "shot" at anyone, but I believe that the source of any information needs to carry some weight when deciding the value of the information itself.

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Ultimate pup oh so wrong infact the boarding associations have very indepth meetings with the manufactures & there head honchos yearly & this year the 3 yearly was the topic & infact you learn a whole lot more from the horses mouth.

Titre tests do not prove anything except at the time the tests where high,next week they can be low.

All kennels are very aware of vaccs & the views of some people but until there is legal guarantess to the claims of titres,vacc & all other stuff vacations are the safe guard for liability.When you work in this industry & have to pay out insurance etc etc you can critize all you want.

I now off a kennel that accepts homopathic/titre & they have had more outbreaks than kennels that accept yearly vaccs

Titre testing is being done in both the UK and USA. From what I've read, this new regime hasn't improved dog health or outcomes in terms of vaccine-preventible disease...but titre testing is VERY lucrative apparently b/c it costs a LOT more for the owner to get titre testing than to administer annual vaccinations.

Either way, when my dogs have to go to a boarding kennel, I would feel uncomfortable knowing that the operator accepts unvaccinated dogs...and I would NOT board my dog in such an environment. Therefore, I will continue to choose a *reputable* operator that insists that MY dogs and everyone else's dogs are vaccinated to the minimum of C5 (or C6 in a lepto-prone region).

I don't know why anyone would risk the health of their dog/s by boarding them somewhere that doesn't require vaccination.

[morgan]

I don't know why anyone would risk the health of their dog/s by boarding them somewhere that doesn't require vaccination.

Who is talking about unvaccinated dogs? I have never heard of a kennel that doesn't require some form of vaccination schedule.

Titre testing is done to find out whether the last vaccination has still provided immunity or not - no point doing it with an unvaccinated dog. BTW, this testing is only about $25 more than your average C5 shot, not what I would call a "LOT more". When you factor in how many dogs end up back at the vet with a reaction to it, the titre testing could easily work out cheaper!

When you add up the vet expenses incurred by owners whose dogs have ended up with some nasty condition such as epilepsy or Cushings through over-vaccination, titre testing is worth is weight in gold!

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

I don't know why anyone would risk the health of their dog/s by boarding them somewhere that doesn't require vaccination.

Who is talking about unvaccinated dogs? I have never heard of a kennel that doesn't require some form of vaccination schedule.

Titre testing is done to find out whether the last vaccination has still provided immunity or not - no point doing it with an unvaccinated dog. BTW, this testing is only about $25 more than your average C5 shot, not what I would call a "LOT more". When you factor in how many dogs end up back at the vet with a reaction to it, the titre testing could easily work out cheaper!

When you add up the vet expenses incurred by owners whose dogs have ended up with some nasty condition such as epilepsy or Cushings through over-vaccination, titre testing is worth is weight in gold!

Morgan, $25 may not seem like much if you have only one dog, but in our case, titre testing instead of vaccination would cost $75 more than the vaccinations cost (using your costing of $25...I haven't actually found a vet that is prepared to consider this instead of vaccinations)...

Did you read any of the other posts on page one of this thread? I believe that another member posted that kennels do accept titre testing rather than a C5 vaccine...or perhaps it was more than one member? I think someone else mentioned both titre testing and the use of homeopathic remedies as 'evidence' in support of allowing a dog in that is not vaccinated.

I continue to believe in vaccination. I'm one of these people that prefers (for the moment) to trust my vet's advice, opinion and recommendations - in conjunction with doing my own research on overseas and local information and studies.

BTW - I have had a dog have a reaction to vaccinations and it's not a big deal to me. It's certainly better than taking the risk that she catches a deadly (preventible) disease.

JMO.

[Nadia]

To owners who have had dogs die from vaccine reactions, or suffer from life threatening illness as a result, it is a big deal.

Part of being a good responsible owner is to do what you believe is in the best interests of your animals, for many the risk from vaccination is too high.

I know many dogs who have reacted so badly to vaccination that under VETERINARY advice they have never been vaccinated again, it all about what is best for our pets.