Training A Reliable Recall

[Aranelles]

A reliable recall is very important to me as i live next to a state forest and we have a lot of wildlife which to my 3 lovely goldies find to hard to resist. i recentl attended a workshop with k9 and applied it to my youngest dog, i was very pleased when the next time she got out she came straight back when she saw her prey toy. i dont have a problem with having the toy handy when she is out in the paddocks, it is easier to carry the toy than to have her ripped open by a roo. I am sure wih more work though that the toy will not need to be used as much

[wheres my rock]

i have both clickers and verbal markers personally i prefer the verbal i find im quicker and it takes much less coordination rofl. I can train a behaviour faser with verbals than i can a clicker dogs arent stupid they read out body languge if your shitty they know beofre you say a thing whether you use the clicker or not they still know when things are edgy.

i went to a worksop recently and got the same results using a verbal as everyone else did using the clicker im mch busier than they were i have often foudn when you stick a clicker in someones hadn they become to clinical training should be interactive like a dance between dog and handler not something out of a skinner video rofl . WEll thats my opinion anyway

[Arya]

Kelpie-I, thanks for the info, I appreciate it I think it's particularly interesting you're having good success using a clicker with aggressive dog. I've seen clicker training in action. I understand the principles and can see why it is valuable, especially if someone new to training is taught to use a clicker properly. So many times in obedience classes I tell people to stop adding a lot of extraneous words when training their dogs as they completely confuse their dogs and I can see this might be reduced a lot with a clicker. However, I would have to disagree about not putting an inflection in your tone. Perhaps its just me and the dogs I've trained but I've found that if used precisely, inflections mean a lot - as long as they're used precisely. I see what you mean about the 'bad day' bit though. I think we have to be a bit of an actor when training our dogs and try to always act consistent, whatever method we use

[Arya]

Wheresmy rock, I much prefer to use verbal too for the reasons I said earlier. Plus, if you're an uncoordinated git like me you'd be sure to muck up the clicker timing anyway ROFL...

[m-j]

i hope you're not trying to draw a parallel between a horse being 'positively trained' and a dog? Horses are prey animals, dogs are predators.

I'm sorry I have to disagree. I believe you can, any animal can be taught to do any behaviour through positive motivation, as long as they are physically capable, and the trainer can work out how to achieve it. I have seen video footage of a horse being taught to trot on the spot (sorry don't know what it is called) through targeting, obviously only a snippet but the trainer said at no time during teaching this, was the horse restrained or any pressure applied, except to go onto an further increment, another galloping to catch a thrown frisbee and return it to it's trainer, again through targeting.

I have taught goats to do numerous things through targeting and shaping and luring. things that would have taken a lot of time, energy and maybe I wouldn't have achieved them at all if I applied pressure. I have seen another trainer get a goat to put it's front feet onto a skateboard and start pushing it in about 5 mins. These prey animals were taught using exactly the same methods, I use on my dogs and cats. The only difference was the motivator.

cheers

M-J

[J...]

Having spent the last few years studying natural horsemanship before I got my first dog, I have to say there are a lot of similarities. Horses have no real use for praise (still did anyway, more for my benefit than theirs), where the release of pressure is the reward. Its not a big step to add praise to that equation for a dog.

Making the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult (setting the dog up to succeed)

Four phases of firmness. Working through the "suggest, ask, tell, move your feet now!" stages to get a responsive animal. Using the same method of checking - seen that discussed several times here.

Consistency!!!! In one program of NH you are not to use any verbal cues until you are up to a specific stage in the program because of inconsistent use of verbal cues. Often wonder whether it should be the same with dog training - I'm certainly no angel in this aspect!

JMHO

[Kelpie-i]

Arya, yes I agree that tone of voice when praising, correcting etc is very important as a clear communicator to dogs, however for those people with bad timing, no personality, no relationship with their dog and/or those who are completely stressed due to their dog's aggression and find it extremely hard to bring out their voice tones on time and in a correct manner, the clicker works very well.

I use the clicker with aggressive dogs by first teaching the owner correct timing and clicking on precisely the right moment. I usually have the owner work on focus from the dog first. Once the owner is working well with this and the dog has the concept, then we move to a low-level distraction environment where there might be one or two dogs around and keep the handler working on focus etc. If the dog happens to load, I instruct the owner to try to remain calm and move away - no correction, no re-action - no worries! It's a slow process for sure, but with each session we see the dog improving and beginning to look up at the owner more often for guidance which is met with a click and treat and game etc. The main thing here is to "hide" any emotion that the owner may be feeling due to the aggression and to concentrate on the dog's good behaviour. The owner's emotions are actually hidden behind the clicker, so to speak. With this brings the start of communication, albeit initially by a clicker, but as the owner's confidence grows and begins to relax more and the dog begins to offer appropriate behaviour more often, I find that the owner does begin to use correct verbal praise and marking naturally.

I also use verbal techniques for those with better timing and good communication with their dogs, it all depends on the situation that is presented and the capability of the owners. I suppose that's the beauty of "balanced" training.

Working Setters, yes I am enjoying the book. As with all books, there are certain parts that are questionable (I always questions things however), but most of it is common sense stuff with good step-by-step exercises for the beginner. The author, Emma Parsons, is not a trainer but wrote the book after gaining success with her dog's severe aggression through clicker training. Se has since helped many other people with the same problem and has gained knowledge and experience on the subject. Worth a read if interested.

Edited December 23, 2006 by Kelpie-i