Adjustment Commands: Are They Needed?

[dogdude]

What are your thoughts and what do you practice in your training? I prefer to show the dog correct position without alternative words.

[wheres my rock]

i add the cue hen the dog is doing the exercise and positioning himself the way i want so i guess i dont use adjustment words they are a bit like ceerleading if you keep reminding the dog of how to get there then why would he start thinking it out for himself. I try to us as fewer cues and bodylanguage as i can

[MrsD]

What are your thoughts and what do you practice in your training? I prefer to show the dog correct position without alternative words.

Just to clarify something, I do show the dog the correct position without using second commands ie I will physically place or lure the dog into the correct position when I am teaching the dog the command. But once the dog understands the command & can complete it, I do also like to verbally tell the dog when Im not happy with the position its in by using the word "close". Another example I thought of is if I was heeling my dog off lead & it was working a bit wide I would tell it "close" & encourage it to heel closer to me. To me telling it to heel again would be not telling or showing the dog what I want ie it is already walking along beside me on my left side & I wouldnt use a physical correction, so I use an adjustment command ie close. Giving it a second command using the same word (as Kavik does) to me would be like giving the dog a second chance & the associated perils that come with that. At least with an adjustment word, the dog knows that it has done the correct thing, Im just not happy with the position.

FWIW, I cant really think of any other commands I would use like that (or rather in any other situations that I would use another command) but it's always worked for me .

I don't need to use the command, but I like to use it & it's given me good results so far .

[wheres my rock]

see thast where i think differently heel is a particular positon and once my dog knows where it is i would expect him to be there and stay there if he was wide of me i'd break off and rebegin without any words and also check i wasnt hte reason he was wide if you keep reminding them of whre they should be then is t any different to th person saying sit sit sit

[cavNrott]

.

Edited May 29, 2009 by cavNrott

[MrsD]

see thast where i think differently heel is a particular positon and once my dog knows where it is i would expect him to be there and stay there if he was wide of me i'd break off and rebegin without any words and also check i wasnt hte reason he was wide if you keep reminding them of whre they should be then is t any different to th person saying sit sit sit

OK, so now we have one person who uses a different command to indicate to the dog that they are not happy with the position, one who reissues the same command again & one who does nothing but walks off.

What's that saying - "The only thing 2 trainers will agree on will be what the 3rd trainer is doing wrong"

[Kavik]

Like wheres my rock I see heel as a position. If the dog is wide, lagging, forging, whatever, it is not in heel position. Generally I do a lot of random heeling, so if my dog is out of position I will change direction to keep the dog guessing and on his toes. So if my dog is heeling wide I will do right turns or right about turns without a verbal command.

I taught my finish in small increments moving a small distance and direction away from Diesel and then saying 'heel' and getting him to come to the heel position (flip/pivot style finish) - so this also means that if he is wide in a stationary position I can tell him to heel and he will pivot and scoot in closer to me.

[wheres my rock]

pretty much most people do what works best for them

[dogdude]

Another related topic to the thread is how you get your dog acheive straight sitting both in heel and fronts. One way I teach recalls is by placing two bricks about half a metre in front of me, spaced just wide enough for the dogs behind. I then progress to sticking out my knee (whichever one is required to guide the dogs rear to a straight sit). I use food as the central target held between my two pointer fingers at groin level to draw the dog close around the adjusting knee. I try and antisipate a crooked sit rather that issue an adjustment command or by stepping back further (which I dont think teaches them much).

Thoughts?

Edited December 12, 2006 by dogdude

[wheres my rock]

for ages now we've been using patty russo's method of throwing food between our legs letting the dog dive through to get it start with legs wider apart then making them closer together. I reward all fronts this way dogs straighten on their own as the quickest way through is to be directly in front

[dogdude]

WMR:

I have never heard of this method, sounds good and makes perfect sense! Wouldnt like to be training a hungry rotti though!

Edited December 12, 2006 by dogdude

[wheres my rock]

hehe in the video she says that with very large breeds its not needed as you can spit food from your mouth schuthund style. though we've done it with larger dogs to no worse than having an over the top pointer chase you down with a dumbell my hubby had that happen and the judge had teas in his eyes too lol

[PAX]

Please explain. What is ceerleading.

Cheerleading

[cavNrott]

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Edited May 29, 2009 by cavNrott

[MrsD]

Another related topic to the thread is how you get your dog acheive straight sitting both in heel and fronts. One way I teach recalls is by placing two bricks about half a metre in front of me, spaced just wide enough for the dogs behind. I then progress to sticking out my knee (whichever one is required to guide the dogs rear to a straight sit). I use food as the central target held between my two pointer fingers at groin level to draw the dog close around the adjusting knee. I try and antisipate a crooked sit rather that issue an adjustment command or by stepping back further (which I dont think teaches them much).

Thoughts?

DD I do something similar when I teach the sit in front, I dont use "close" to adjust a straight sit, only to get the dog to sit closer to me.

Does that make sense?

Sorry I just re-read my posts & I can see why you thought that. Its not really straightening my dog, but more slight adjustments usually because I feel that the dog is slightly too far away. Sometimes this does mean that the dog straightns up when I tell him "close" but its mainly so that he's in a closer position to me (btw, Im talking about SLIGHT digressions of correctness here, not sitting a foot away).

Sitting at heel, I usually use my hand or use a wall or fence.

Here are a couple of scenarios, I'd be interested to know what everyone would do in each situation?

Scenario 1 - you are in an obedience trial ring & walk up to the start peg & the dog sits wide &/or crooked.

Scenario 2 - You do a recall at training & your dog sits too far out in front of you (but straight).

In both scenarios assume that your dog is at a sufficient enough standard that you are no longer luring with food.

I did have another question I was going to ask that another offshoot from this thread, but between dogs chewing things up, kids arguing & fighting & having to play fetch with my dog I've forgotten what it is now - I'll get back to you all on that one .

[Cosmolo]

For those scenarios- the first one i would repeat my heel command only. The second one, given that it is in training, we watch for Cosmo slowing down as she gets closer and we turn and run which works great for her as it changes her expectations, increases motivation and then she comes in quicker and closer. There's not usually any verbal command that accompanies that.

[dogdude]

Hi MrsD

The first case senario during a trial when a dog makes a mistake then I dont think that it really matters what you do because you cant change it into a training session. If this was a problem in training then that is a different matter. I would do similar to Cosmolo, exaggerate the dogs mistake and quickly heel off in the direction that most disadvantages the dog, praising him when he's there. I do "one stride block exercises" as well. Basically heeling off with one stride, then stop etc in a square formation. I find this a good training exercise to get the dog used to making quick adjustments. Heeling patterns with a "quick step" to the right in a straight line is also good.

Second case, I think sounds more like a motivational problem. For the boring repetitive exercises like recall and heelwork, I still use food as a motivator, even at trial level. He just doesnt know when, or at what interval, he will get it. (not on me during a trial of course). During the dogs learning phase, did you use food for a reward and a target? If you used it as a target in the right spot, I cant work out why he would sit too far from you. There must be some reason?

[wheres my rock]

hehe my sheltie sits out a bit coz im fat and he cant see past my belly

my sisters dog learnt heel while shewas preggers wehn she had bub she had a forging dog

first scenario when i go in the ring i do a couple of quick hand targets and then set up at the post so dog is foccussed if the dog sat crooked i would just reset if it was a training problem then he wouldnt know heel position and so we would still be doodling

Second issue throwing food through the legs solves that one dog sits close so he doesnt have a s far to run