Trial Cancellation

[brittany13]

I attended the obedience trial at Croydon today. 15 minutes after the start it was suspended due the heat reaching the cut off point set by the VCA. 90 minutes later after sitting in the sun and heat and what little shade was available the trial was cancelled. rather ironic I thought. Sit in the sun and heat, but not trial!!

While I have no problems with the idea in principle, I believe the method of implementation is flawed. It should be up to at the minimum the VCA rep present on the day.

What however puzzles me is that at a recent conformation show the temperature reached temperatures far in excess of when the trial was cancelled . yet it still continued. Given that the actual time working in the ring can quite often be far less than in a show ring why is there this disparity.

Does anyone have any ideas in relation to this.

Paul

[Staff'n'Toller]

Well I was at a training club this morning but would never have taken my dogs out on a day like today.

The temperature may be fine for you, but Staffords get very hot very quickly due to their short nose. I can't see how you would be getting the best out of your dog on a day like today.

By 1.30pm it was 40 deg here in Scoresby.

Obedience trials run right through the year, I don't see why you *have* to take your dog out in such heat. Build a bridge.

Mel.

Edited December 10, 2006 by Staff'n'Toller

[Sayreovi]

Geez You knew it was going to be hot, possibly going up to 40 degrees (which it did) and you still went out there expecting to compete?!

[Guest Clover]

Amazing what people think about putting their dogs through, just for a qualifying score .

Edited December 10, 2006 by Clover

[dogdude]

Yeahh its hot!!

But WHERES EVERYONES MANNERS TODAY ??????? !!!!!!!!!

[wheres my rock]

If you read the vca gazette the heat policy for obedience trials was in it on several occasions it coincides with the rspcas guidelines

[brittany13]

Well thank you for sharpening your nails on my back!

Just to answer your "remarks"

I obviously missed the policy in the gazette. However even checking the VCA website, I still couldn't find it.

As for the attendance at the trial. It must just mean that there were about 150 other similarly motivated people.

At the commencment of the trial the temp was well within guidelines, however it did rise quickly, that is why is was suspended.

For those that have dsylexia. Would you place on the rose coloured glasses and please read my original post once again. My question was "why is the policy implemented in the way that it is" because as said I believe there is a better way.

Secondly "If this policy is as is, why then has the conformation shows not adopted the same ruling"

I did not put the question on here for a personal slanging match. If you don't wish to answer a question constructively, don't bother.! After my comments I think I'll call it even.

Given the area where I live, this is the first time in about the last month that we are forecast to have a day below 30c. I live in north east Victoria. If you wish to do anything it done in a warmer climate. My dog goes for walks, runs and plays in these temperatures, so is perfectly acclimatised to them. He has no problem. If it is "hot" he has a cool coat to assist. Have no fear he would never be put in a situation where heat stress would be option.

That said, if anyone has any constructive comment to make in relation to my original question, I would like to here them.

[leopuppy04]

I was at the trial also and had picked up my tickets and everything but I doubt I would have put my dog in the ring had it not been cancelled. I went because it was my home club, i've paid my money anyway so pass or fail i'm still loosing out ont he $10 entry (if you want to look at it that way). Walking around at 10:15am I doubt I would have put my boy through this, but for all of those that think it is 'cruel'... maybe it is, but 99% of owners were very concious of their dogs in the heat and had cool coats on them (where do you get these?!) and we constantly putting them in the wading pools to cool them off. Infact, after we had finished packing up and everything at about 2pm, us club members all let our dogs off to stretch their legs and although they only ran around for 10 mins they were still happy to zoom around despite the heat.

In answer to your question though - I think it is fair for an obedience trial to be called off because despite what some people think, it is HARD work for your dog to concentrate for that long in that type of heat. Do YOU feel like working on such a hot day??? When we enter an obedience trial, we are asking a LOT out of our dogs. There is no motivation until you are out of the ring and they have to concentrate for at least 10 mins with little indication from the handler that they have done the right thing. Sooo many dogs were lagging in their heeling (due to the heat), why put all of your hard work under that stress. The 90 min rule is I guess, to make sure that the temp doesn't drop again.... but as you may have noticed... many people have left before that.

Conformation requires a lot less concentration from the dog, not to mention, you can reward the dog and 'rest' it while in the ring (big class, the ones at the end can relax their dogs etc). It is not half as strenuous as an obed trail IMO.... but I believe that there will be a lot fewer showies during the summer than in the cooler months!

I believe this doesn't stand true for agility either, they don't have heat rules, but it is MO, that this should also be the case because it is too hot to be doing all of that running around.

The only way I would have entered my dog would have been to dunk him in the pool, soak him and then take him in.... but I doubt I would have done that anyway!

[brittany13]

Leo puppy - cool coats at this http://www.coolingapparel.com.au/. They are very good.

Re your post. Agree with a lot of it. At 10.15 I would have given it a go. He was lying down in some shade with his coat on asleep. Not even panting!! Only 7 in the ring and 2 had been through. would have been finished in 45 mins.

As said the whole point ot my comment is, "why is there a rule for one and not the other?"

If as Where's my Rock says its RSPCA guidelines. ( Just rang them and they have no guideline or similar) I am not against the idea at all but shouldn't it then apply to ALL types of exhibitions.

[rakaaz]

Well said Leopuppy, I would not put any of my rotties in a trial in those conditions, black dogs just can't handle it. I wouldn't take them to a conformation show either, but certainly a normal all breeds show would be way less demanding than an obedience trial. Usually only about 5 mins in the ring, a little triangle to trot around, look pretty and thats it!

I would hope most people would use their common sense, and depending on the breed, and the individual dog make a decision on whether it was good for the dog or not.

I think an agility and obedience trial would be much more taxing than an all breeds show, and therefore the cutoff in temperatures could be a little higher.

[bloss344]

Good post Leopuppy. I was there at 10 am as a spectator and the few dogs I saw competing were really struggling with the heat. Apparently there were a lot of scratchings.

[poodlefan]

I do not attend trials without taking my own shade with me. Best investment you can make for your dog's comfort is a decent gazebo.Strangely although agility trials (like dog shows) are usually a forest of gazebos, obedience people seem to have reluctant to take that step. I also have a cool mat and take cold water and a spray bottle for warmer days.

I would not trial in that heat, regardless of whether or not I'd paid my money. I don't trial in Sydney beyond October or before March.

Time for clubs to start considering night obedience trials between October and March I reckon. Night agility trials have been around for ages.

Personally, I think the right decision was made - it's an animal welfare issue and unfortunately there are dog sports people who will put competition above their dog's wellbeing.

Did competitors get a refund?

[haven]

This is not specifically in regard to the trial, but I can't believe the amount of people who brought their dogs to training yesterday! At 10.15am I almost passed out while taking an obedience class and had to have another instructor take over for half the class. If I felt that way I hate to imagine how the poor dogs were coping!

I'm interested to know what your ideas on how better to implement the heat cancellation policy Staffy13.

[leopuppy04]

I think I saw you around Staffy - was your dog wearing a bright yellow cool coat??? If so, your dog seemed like it was coping fine .

There were a LOT of scratchings so the rings would have gone through quickly, IMO. It really is up to the individual to decide whether or not to enter.

I think the reason for multiple rules is that there are different sections that take care of each sport. OTEC take care of obedience and don't interfere with the agility/conformation rules etc. I think it should be a blanketed rule though.... especially with agility. But then all of their trials are finished now and the Feb trials are twilight.

Poodlefan - we were talking about twilight trials yesterday wondering why they weren't done..... even then, starting a trial at 8am would have resulted in the trial being pretty much finished by 10:15 and at 8am the heat was quite bearable.

I think the right decision was made also! To my knowledge - no refund.

As for the tents - i'm interested in getting one but i'm too worried i'd have no idea how to put it up (VERY dumb person here!!!!).

LOL!

[whatevah]

Does flyball have a rule for heat? I remember earlier this year at the Ringwood Nationals, it was so hot that sweat was running down the backs of my legs. I have never been so hot. There were even people who had towels wrapped around their heads and it was a 2 day event. I did not race my dogs but came along to look at the new lights. There were heaps of people there racing there dogs. For my two gun dogs who have been bred to swim in icy water, I take them out of trialling in the summer months. But am more happy to trial in the winter.

[brittany13]

Firstly to Haven - Firstly, please don't get me wrong. There needs to be a point where a show, trial etc is stopped for heat. I have no disagreement with that. When I used to trial previously some 15 plus years ago, the decision was made by the judges and the club running the event. If a judge/s considered it too hot the trial was suspended. A meeting was held between them and a consenus was made as to whether or not to continue. Took less than 20 mins. If then a competitior felt that it was too much for their dog they withdrew. Far less time to know what was going on than the now allowed for time of 90 mins. Today there is a VCA rep. The same system could apply with the Rep as the chairperson of the meeting. Temperature is a funny thing. You could have 31c with exceptionally high humidity and its unbearable, yet a trial may continue. Higher temp with low humidity and yet it will feel cooler and the trial must be suspended/cancelled. Yes there must be a guideline to prevent heatstress for both dogs and competitors alike, but I feel the decision to stop should be made by the those in charge on the day. Some people/dogs cope with heat better than others. If I felt my dog was stressed by heat and the trial was still allowed to continue I would either scratch or withdraw.

Leopuppy - that was him. I must agree an earlier start would have been better even though it was a 2 1/2 hr drive to get there. It was interesting to see you comment that agility do not have the rule. The dog is generally all hyped up with enthusiasm and runs harder than in obedience. As you said I believe there should be a rule that covers all. But that has been my point all along.

Also re the gazebo, have a look in the Home hardware "dogalogue" - (appropriate I think) they have a fold up gazebo on special ($79 I think). Its at the cheaper end but we had ours up yesterday and it worked fine.

[haven]

Ok, so the issue is the length of time that you have to wait for a decision to be made?

Sorry if I'm being slow

[leopuppy04]

Firstly to Haven - Firstly, please don't get me wrong. There needs to be a point where a show, trial etc is stopped for heat. I have no disagreement with that. When I used to trial previously some 15 plus years ago, the decision was made by the judges and the club running the event. If a judge/s considered it too hot the trial was suspended. A meeting was held between them and a consenus was made as to whether or not to continue. Took less than 20 mins. If then a competitior felt that it was too much for their dog they withdrew. Far less time to know what was going on than the now allowed for time of 90 mins. Today there is a VCA rep. The same system could apply with the Rep as the chairperson of the meeting. Temperature is a funny thing. You could have 31c with exceptionally high humidity and its unbearable, yet a trial may continue. Higher temp with low humidity and yet it will feel cooler and the trial must be suspended/cancelled. Yes there must be a guideline to prevent heatstress for both dogs and competitors alike, but I feel the decision to stop should be made by the those in charge on the day. Some people/dogs cope with heat better than others. If I felt my dog was stressed by heat and the trial was still allowed to continue I would either scratch or withdraw.

Actually we were talking about this yesterday also, saying that all other sports go by discretion. It is a new rule brought in by OTEC. Like you say you could have a scortching 28deg day with blazing sunlight and no wind and i'd never enter my dog or we could have a 34deg day with southerly winds, so a nice breeze coming through which is more bearable than the 28deg day.... but I guess with a blanket rule like that it makes it easier than others who don't use their heads about trialling, enter their dogs in regardless of the 40+ temps and later punish their dog for not being able to concentrate (not pointing fingers, just hypothetical!).

[brittany13]

That's more the point. Its not the rule itself. Its the way the rule is being implemented and being administrated. It should be administrered by those persons there on the particular day at that particular time. Not having a set cut off point which may be not be as accurate or inappropriate as what those present on the day can determine better. Further as said, this rule should be applied to all organised dog activities.

[wheres my rock]

maybe they were hoping in vain that the cool change would hit earlier