Demodectic Mange

[Zorro_007]

I have adopted a maremma sheepdog (I already had a maremma of my own) from my neighbours, they only had her for a couple of months and one morning I received a call from the wife saying that I was welcome to go and pick her up otherwise her husband was going to shoot her with his .22 magnum rifle. She is a beautiful dog and I just couldn't sit back and let this happen so off I went. Anyway, the reason that they wanted to shoot her is because she has demodectic mange and they couldn't be bothered with her. Now I know that DM could have an underlying health problem as all dogs are known to carry this mite but a healthy immune system keeps the numbers to a minimum; it's when the immune system is compromised that the mites get out of control...now I have taken her to the vet and I was recommended IVERMECTIN by mouth and I have to say that I am a little concerned about this as some dogs can have a reaction to ivermectin not only shelties, collies, etc. but also that this can be toxic and weaken an already weakened immune system so I was wondering if anyone has had any success using other methods.

I would like to hear from anyone even those that have used ivermectin, I would like to hear of your experiences with this nightmare!

My next port of call will be to have her blood-tested to see if there is an underlying problem but there doesn't seem to be all that much of a choice in what one can do to treat this.

Edited December 17, 2006 by Zorro_007

[wolfgirl]

I had a young lab pup with Demodectic Mange and used the Ivermectin in conjuction with a specialised wash, she had no problems and it cleared fairly quickly from memory around 1 month, we did have to sign a release from our vet before using it though, I have heard that some dogs can react badly to this and before giving it I would see a vet and get their opinion.

[Golden Girl]

I'm very interested in this thread. Ari has the same mange also.

[calliech]

Dectomax (ivermectin) injections work well; used with caution. Follow up monthly with Bayer Advocate topical which does most intestinal worms, fleas, sarcoptes, demodex and heart worm.

[Carla2]

I had a pup with same... Vet gave me a quantity of cyedectin, was all cleared up in 3 weeks, no further problems..

Carla

[Sonny]

Hi my boy had generalised mange we tried many things but the only thing that worked was Ivermectin, we used it by mouth daily.

The only thing I would suggest is if using it by mouth watch to see how much your dog dribbles, you may need to use a little extra Ivermectin to ensure a full dose is delivered (we used 1.5ml).

We use advocate on him now monthly to control any risk of it coming back (he is not a health boy so there is some risk, usually not for a health dog).

We use advocate on our new puppy to hopefully eliminate any risk of her getting mange.

Better to get on top of the problem quick, not only for the dogs well being but also to stop follicular scarring, my boy has a thinner coat now and in some places it can look patchy.

[Tassie]

Have used ivermectin safely with a KelpiexBorder Collie many years ago (althogh it turned out she was hypothyroid, not demodex another story.)

That said, I would probably look at getting your dog tested for the MDR1 gene problem which makes particular dogs problematic for ivermectin among a number of other drugs. Here's a link to information about the test from Washington State university gene test. If you look on that site, you'll also find general information about their drug sensitivity study.

I'd certainly be discussing this with my vet - and maybe checking up whether youcan get the test done fom here, and how long it would take etc.etc. Maremmas are not on the list of affected breeds so far - but maybe because they haven't been tested.

[~Anne~]

I used ivermectin orally for 3 months on a Pug bitch with severe demoex and she was fine with it. I added it to her food.

She was also washed intitally every second day with Pyohex and was also on antibiotics for secondary infections from her mange.

We had no problems associated with her treatment at all. To see her now you would never believe what a mess she was.

There is a thread in this forum with pics showing the drastic change in her during the treatment.

[Guest Tiggy]

I used Advocate as recommended by my vet when Sophie got Demodex at about 4 months old and it did work. She's 12 months now and I've just noticed her coat on her back and legs is getting thin patches so I'm going to start her on Advocate again. I did try a natural treatment but didn't see any improvement. The Vet said the Bull breeds are prone to it but usually don't get it once their fully mature. I wonder why Sophie's got it again as I've always fed her BARF and she is a fit healthy dog. She is very sensitive and I read it can be caused by stress.

[calliech]

Advocate is absolutely great but it can take up to four months to work on demodex and must be applied monthly. It may not control protracted or severe cases. Demodex affects young puppies, immunosuppressed dogs and those going through hormonal changes so you see it more often in pubertal males and bitches that are coming into season, in season or just past their season.

All drugs and medications must go thru rigorous clinical trials before they can safely go to market. Any symptoms, signs or side effects experienced during this time must be reported on and included in information to disclose to the end users. Sometimes these symptoms or side effects may not really even be attributable to the medication in question but must be reported anyway. For example, when I was 24 I developed adult acne and went on Roaccutane. Now my skin had been perfect until I hit 24 and suddenly in the prime of my life I had cystic acne. The dermatologist sent me away with the information and stressed 2 points: don't get pregnant as it DOES cause birth defects and it MAY cause depression. Now when I read the insert, 16% of patients reported depression (you'd be depressed too with cystic acne so I don't know how they came to that conclusion) but 24% of the general population were reported to have depression too. So arguably one could say that really it caused a decrease in the incidence of depression... but they can't say that.

So your vet may tell you of the side effects that the treatment can have but may never have actually seen any of those side effects personally. He/she must to tell you that it CAN have side effects. Just ask your vet how many cases of demodectic mange they see a week, how do they treat it normally and how often do they experience any side effects. A puppy of a friend of mine had demodex and was misdiagnosed with allergies. Hills diet wasn't working and too many assumptions were made. When I did a skin scraping on the little fellow who was about 5 months old by this stage, he had demodex. So he was treated with dectomax injections and recovered fully with no skin problems ever again. Whenever he had an injection, one of the owners stayed at home with him to make sure he was ok. He experienced no side effects whatsoever. This particular vet said he saw 1 case of demodex a week and had never had any side effects.

Essentially you have to weigh up the pros and cons and take a calculated risk just as you do with every aspect of your own health. It's more onerous when you're solely responsible for another life like a dog but the long term prospects for a dog with protracted mange aren't that great so it's not safer to err on the side of caution in this situation.

Like I said, ask your vet "in your experience do the benefits of the treatment outweigh the risks associated with it and have you personally seen the reported side effectes associated with this medication?" You may be surprised.

[dogbesotted]

OK. I have a failed foster maremma Lucky who came to me via a shelter with not a piece of fur on his sweet face..domodectic mange. he was treated with ivermectin daily. Then when no mites were visible in skin scrapings we went to monthly scrapings then three monthly. he has never had a relapse. he gets supplements in his food.

if your dogs owners had that attitude then she possibly was not raised well either so lots of attention to her interactions with people will be important as well.

[nikkiandkuma]

My story about demodectic mange and ivermectin is a bit of a horror story and definitely not the norm but I thought I should add it to the list of otherwise positive stories.

We had a lovely young dobe puppy who developed a few spots of demodex on her face. Initially the vet recommended only washing her with pyohex as she was quite young and he felt she would grow out of the mange as she got older and her immune system picked up. After 2 weeks of this we took her back to the vet looking much worse. This is when he decided we should start treating orally with ivermectin. I can't remember the dosage as it was years ago. She got worse and worse, to the point where she had little hair left on her cody and secondary infections all over, she was sore to touch and went quite insane. By the time she was 8 months old the only humane thing we could do was to have her PTS as she was in unbearable pain.

I have never heard of any similar story and neither had my vet, so I really think she had some auto immune issues.

I hope your new rescue does well, whatever you choose to do.

[Zorro_007]

Thank you all for your input. I have taken Luna to see another vet and a skin scraping was carried out and she does have DM which I knew anyway. She is now on oral ivermectin; I was hoping that there would be another way but obviously there isn't. I was advised to use advocate but this is a much slower way to treat this condition and Luna is not looking too good so I have decided that this is the best way; meanwhile she is fed a BARF diet and is on fish oil and vitamins, fingers crossed for the poor girl. I will post a photo of her soon.

[BOSSFACE]

We have had two young dogs with demodex. The first was treated successfully with dectomax injections weekly, over a three month period and the second is currently being treated with a weekly wash and seems to be improving. Both were only localised demodex on the head.

[nikkiandkuma]

Thank you all for your input. I have taken Luna to see another vet and a skin scraping was carried out and she does have DM which I knew anyway. She is now on oral ivermectin; I was hoping that there would be another way but obviously there isn't. I was advised to use advocate but this is a much slower way to treat this condition and Luna is not looking too good so I have decided that this is the best way; meanwhile she is fed a BARF diet and is on fish oil and vitamins, fingers crossed for the poor girl. I will post a photo of her soon.

Advocate doesn't treat demodectic mange but only treats sarcoptic mange. So I think you have chosen the correct option. I would look at adding some supplements to boost the dogs own natural immunity aswell. I hope it clears up quickly.

Sorry I should read the entire post before replying, I see you are supplementing her.

Edited December 14, 2006 by nikkiandkuma

[Golden Girl]

I was looking at Ari's demodectin mange this morning and I wondered about rubbing garlic ON the infested sites? Opinions anyone??

[Rappie]

Advocate doesn't treat demodectic mange but only treats sarcoptic mange.

Advocate is registered for the treatment of both demodectic and sarcoptic mange.

Revolution however is only registered for the treatment of sarcoptic mange.

I've found Advocate to be great for treating localised demodex cases, however often generalised cases will require more aggressive treatment with other regimens like the Dectomax (which is doramectin) injections or ivermectin orally. It's important to attack demodex from a number of angles (omega oils, follicle clearing shampoor etc along with parasiticides and antibiotics) because the effects of the mite infestations (eg. secondary infections and constant itching) are very stressful on the body and suppress the dog's immune response further.

[calliech]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Garlic BURNS!!!!! Don't use pawpaw skin either (another wives tale) as it burns too.

Just ask me.

It's an old wives tale that applying garlic to a bruise will bring the bruise out so as a 12 year old I did this to the back of my lower calf around the achilles tendon. I have a nice scar where it burn the skin AND the fatty tissue.

[Golden Girl]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Garlic BURNS!!!!! Don't use pawpaw skin either (another wives tale) as it burns too.

Just ask me.

It's an old wives tale that applying garlic to a bruise will bring the bruise out so as a 12 year old I did this to the back of my lower calf around the achilles tendon. I have a nice scar where it burn the skin AND the fatty tissue.

THANKS!!!!! Wow, thankyou SO much for the warning!!!!!!!!!!

[Zorro_007]

I was looking at Ari's demodectin mange this morning and I wondered about rubbing garlic ON the infested sites? Opinions anyone??

The mites that cause demodectic mange burrow deep into the hair follicle and that is why most products don't penetrate deep enough to kill them but, for discussion sake, even if garlic did work (which it doesn't) I wouldn't and couldn't use it, the smell of raw garlic would be enough to make me violently ill .

Luna is on vitamins, fish oil and oral ivermectin and I have to start her on 3ml of ivermectin daily for 3 days and increase the dosage every 3 days till she's on the full dosage for her weight. She is moulting like nothing I have ever seen before but hopefully she should be on the mend soon enough.

Rappie, the vet did suggest using Advocate but the success rate is not that great with generalised DM as you said yourself. So as much as I hate doing this to her I don't have any other choice but to stick with the oral ivermectin which she hates herself because of its bitter taste.