Skipy Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 OK, I need some help. I want to have my girl not desexed, but uterus removed with ovaries intact. I understood that that would mean she will still have hormonal cycles, but without side effects of bleeding and discharge that would attract by boy. Is this true? Also, is there anything that she might be losing hormone wise, by getting her uterus removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidoney Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) I did that years ago with my cattle dog bitch. However in later life she had to have three operations for removal of mammary tumours, that would have been avoided had the ovaries been removed. I will not do it again. My desexed bitches now are fully desexed. I currently have 2 desexed bitches, one that was desexed at about a year and the other at 6 after three litters, and an entire bitch that I have plans to breed one more time, to keep my next generation (her second litter). I have been able to compare entire to desexed and I don't see that I gained anything by keeping the ovaries. Edited December 7, 2006 by sidoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 Hmm, not quite what I am asking. I have decided on keeping the ovaries, so that is final, I am asking more about behaviour of males towards her. With ovaries intact were they still sensing her when she would come into heat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangerineDream Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Why do you want to keep the ovaries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 there is no point to this operation. Either leave her entire or desex her. Hormones are made in other parts of the body as well so she will not be missing out on anything. You are pretty much creating a bitch that will carry on like an entire bitch but not get pregnant. Dogs will carry on around her like she is in season and she will try and mate with them. If you are not going to breed desex. Dont attach human thoughts about this procedure to your dog, she wont care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 I dont know why I am not getting answers to the questions I asked. I already said, she will either stay intact or will have her uterus removed. AND NO, estrogen is ONLY produced by ovaries, I was wondering if uterus had any role other than obvious one, like in supporting bladder, or similar.. Without uterus, she will not bleed, and I was wondering about other stuff but I might have to wait for others to come on-line that understand what I am on about..... Also I would like to know if it prevents spay incontinence at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaves Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Maybe ask the question in tehbreeders forum. I asked about getting it done on my female JRT. My vet strongly advised me against it due to a few reasons: Chances of cancer higher The cost The size of the operation - is is longer and more involved especially is everything is very close or entwined as it can be. I know i have not answered your question, i have just passed on some relevant infor from my vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blissirritated Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 If she's finished maturing (reached her full height, growth plate stuff etc) then I understand the role that her sex hormones would be playing in day to day life would be minimal, so why not have the lot done? If she hasn't finished growing, isn't there an implant or injection (similar in nature to Depo Provera or Implanon?) available for dogs to prevent pregnancy? If I remember correctly my dogs "breeders" mentioned something about their bitch being on one or the other prior to Gypsy being born (the litter was an accident, they thought she was 'past all that' at her age) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttaburra Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Skipy, I know you want to do what's best for your dog, but perhaps you have not had wide enough information to base the premises of your question on. If you don't like the answers you are getting, then it might be worth looking at your question? People don't readily answer a question about an operation that is not recommended or common practice and there are good reasons for this. Try and have an open mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 To answer your question yes she will still cycle and attract dogs, the only difference is she can not have puppies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 cowanbree, Kristy - thanks IDWT, if people cant answer my question, then they dont have to.. I dont see much point in getting answers for what I have not asked. I have read a lot on this, and being in medical field I know what I am asking, I did not quite know how it translates into dog world.... If people dont know about this operation it is not because it is not recomended, but rahter because its harded for vets to do it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttaburra Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Skipy IDWT, if people cant answer my question, then they dont have to.. I dont see much point in getting answers for what I have not asked. I have read a lot on this, and being in medical field I know what I am asking, I did not quite know how it translates into dog world....If people dont know about this operation it is not because it is not recomended, but rahter because its harded for vets to do it.... I understand what you are saying. Your not happy that people that don't know the answer are still giving answers to questions you haven't asked. Questions that would be implicit to your original question Is this the best way to go about desexing a female dog? Will my dog be better off for it? Is there liklihood of complications during surgery and a longer anaesthetic. So far posters have offered contra reasons for doing this op, and yet have not heard about any pros for it. From my limited medical knowledge, I would say it translates into the dog world as anatomically very different to the human reproductive organs (although of course function is similar). Also a dog is smaller and the organs smaller than in an adult human. There is also the issue of juxtoposition of the dogs wombs, ovaries, to the bladder and other organs that could be damaged while trying to separate the ovaries to keep them in. It bears inherent risks for those reasons, not just because it is harder to do. All I am hoping for is that you would consider broadening your idea of Ovarian removal or No desexing, and have a look at what is being said about associated issues that are in a sense answers to your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogs4Fun Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 If people dont know about this operation it is not because it is not recomended, but rahter because its harded for vets to do it.... Can't say I agree with this. "Ovaiohysterectomy (OVH) is the recommended method of sterilizaton in the bitch. ... It is a procedure with distinct advantages over tubal ligation, salpingectomy and hysterectomy, which sterilise a bitch but allow her to continue to experience ovarian cycles, with the behavior alterations that accompany esterus. Furthermore, the ovaries remain in situ and could be the site for neoplasia, infection or torsion." "Tubal Ligation or Hysterectomy: A tubal ligation, whether in veterinary or human medicine, only affects the oviducts. These small structures are isolated during surgery and then cut and tied off with suture material. This prevents the ova from coming in contact with sperm cells or passing into the horns of the uterus. In a hysterectomy, the uterus is removed, but the ovaries remain. With either procedure, the hormones that are normally produced by the ovaries continue to be released to the rest of the body. This is fairly important in humans. However, in dogs it is a disadvantage. Tubal ligations and hysterectomies, through owner demand or veterinary preference, have never been very popular in canine medicine. Some owners see hysterectomy or tubal ligation as a way to sterilize the pet, yet still allow her to experience heat cycles and participate in mating. Because the ovaries remain in the animal, the disadvantages of these procedures are similar to those seen in intact dogs (dogs that have not had surgical sterilization)." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 I would PREFER to leave her intact... I feel horrible already doing uterus removal. So, all of the benefits of spaying I am not interested in.... What I would like, are the following answers: 1. As cowanbree said, she will still attract dogs (I dont like that, as I dont really want to leave my male then with her), I would like to hear from other people on this. How will she attract males when the discarge comes from uterus, I thought that would not be the case, I might be wrong. 2. Will uterus removal help with spay incontinence, ie. prevent it? That is all I need to know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carla2 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 You have some answers, now let us ask a question of you Skipy? is this something you want to do for your dog? secondly, why in the blue blazes would you want to, or just trying to stir up some trouble like you do in all the other dog forums on the net. Carla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogs4Fun Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 What I would like, are the following answers: 1. As cowanbree said, she will still attract dogs "Some owners see hysterectomy or tubal ligation as a way to sterilize the pet, yet still allow her to experience heat cycles and participate in mating. " See this quote in my post above. Does this not answer this question for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 What I would like, are the following answers: 1. As cowanbree said, she will still attract dogs "Some owners see hysterectomy or tubal ligation as a way to sterilize the pet, yet still allow her to experience heat cycles and participate in mating. " See this quote in my post above. Does this not answer this question for you? Well no, because tubal ligation still leaves the uterus intact, so I dont think you can necessarily compare it to hysterectomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 well if you have such vast medical knowledge ... there are hormones in the urine. Bitches mark, when you take her for a walk she will piddle a trail back to your home. She will flag and present to dogs. She will do all the things a bitch in season will do. So pretty much you have all the trouble of an in tact bitch. And if a dog jumps your fence she will want to mate, so dogfight. You will have to contain her in an enclosure or always indoors if you intend this. We are giving you dog related information. Its a little more complicated then human examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Why on earth do you want to do this? Are you truly thinking about the health and happiness of your dog or is there some other obscure reasoning behind it? If you leave the ovaries there is a chance of them becoming cystic or cancerous in mature life, it happens in humans and can happen in dogs too, in fact cystic ovaries aren't uncommon in older bitches. Don't just think about now, think of how she may suffer in later years if she has to have a second operation when surgery is riskier and recovery time much longer. This whole idea seems pretty selfish to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blissirritated Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 So why not go down the injection or subcutaneous implant path? Buggered if I can find any information on it, so I could be wrong, but I figure it must be out there if I've got one in my arm -- why couldn't my dog? You'll still get everything else, but without the risk of pregnancy... *could someone correct me if I'm twaddling like an idiot? Please? * It might help people here to provide you with the answers (or alternatives -- you clearly don't have all the information yet, so how could you make an informed decision?) if they knew WHY you wanted her ovaries intact but everything else taken out. It's like asking about tires, but not saying what sort of car or road you're planning on driving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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