Daisy Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) Just thought I would share some interesting observations, I have a female Irish Wolfhound, she will be 9 months old this weekend. I have recently started taking her to obedience classes. While everyone else's beginner dogs are bouncing around, wrestling, sniffing, running.... Bree sits by my side quietly then will lie down and go to sleep, and after a while she will refuse to get up at all. My instructor is a fascinating person, she has been training dogs for 30 years. She gets people to make training a game, is always saying play with your dog, and uses things like tug toys, says things like 'be the rabbit, be the prey' So now I think I am finally starting to understand training in drive. My big problem is that Bree won't play with me, and I think it is my fault. I got Bree when she was 3 months old, and knowing that she was going to be a very large dog, I have never encouraged her to play with me as I didn't want to encourage her to be rough or jump up on people. Bree plays a lot with the other dogs, chasies and wrestles, but she won't play with me. My instructor has given me a few things to do. Firstly, to seperate Bree from the pack for a while before training ie ask my son when he gets home from school to bring Bree inside away from the other dogs till I get home from work. Then when I get home and she is excited to see me I am to try to play with her. I have been told to get down on my hands and knees and imitate dog play I am to use my hands to give her little pulls and nips as another dog would do if it wanted to play. After playing for a few minutes I am to take her for a walk and do some training, but keeping it fun, making it a game. Anyway, I thought this was all very interesting and just wanted to share. Has anyone else had a similar experience? Edited December 6, 2006 by daisy2002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Hi Daisy2002 Some dogs respond better using other drives. Have you explored her food drive? Often herding and working type dogs have a naturally high prey drive and others less so. As long as you have some type of motivator, it dosn't matter. There are plenty of knowledgeable people on this forum who will fill you in on prey drive techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooper Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Daisy, I'm reading a book on shutzhund obedience about training in drive. I can lend it to you when I'm finished? I don't think it's in the ARF library yet. I've been working on getting Jack interested in retrieving. He has no problems with food drive. And he has a fair bit of prey drive. But not much play drive. I'm building that with a couple of retrieving toys -- we started with a big knotted sock that had other odd socks stuffed inside it. Actually, it's better to have two of those. So that when I would throw one sock off to my left and encourage Jack to bring it back, I would *immediately* throw the other sock off to my right. He soon learned to bring the sock back to me, and that he would be rewarded with another throw. You can try it with food, too. You should see how fast Jack will run from one side to the other to get cabanossi But always make yourself the centre of the activity. Hope that helps get things moving ... I probably won't have a chance to finish my book until Christmas break but you're welcome to borrow it after that ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted December 6, 2006 Author Share Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) Hey that sounds great Mel, would love to borrow the book when you are finished. And schutzhund is the word my instructor used that I couldn't remember she has been doing that for 15 years. Edited December 6, 2006 by daisy2002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 K9: if your dog has high thresholds to drive it will not be a training method you can use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 Sorry to ask a stupid question, but what do you mean by high thresholds to drive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 K9: Ok, to successfully train in drive, I believe you need to know the concepts of drives... Your instructor should be able to give you a full explaination but... High threshold to say prey drive means that it takes a lot of stimulation to trigger prey drive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) Thanks. My instructor's comment was that my dog is a hunting dog so she should have prey drive, we just have to release it. ETA I must admit that I am a bit apprehensive about trying to trigger her prey drive Edited December 7, 2006 by daisy2002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 My instructor's comment was that my dog is a hunting dog so she should have prey drive, we just have to release it. K9: I do have serious concerns with those who train dogs by heir breed. Every breed has such a wide cross section of temperaments, you wont do hat with any reliability.. ETA I must admit that I am a bit apprehensive about trying to trigger her prey drive K9: why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Daisy, I'm only a newbie so I'm not sure how useful my advice would be, but my dog has high food drive and will work well for food, but works SUPER when in prey drive. I mean SUPER!!! However, in spite of always playing well with a ball/tug toy and always being full-on active, it took me some time to hone these skills to the point where I could work my dog using balls/tug toy instead of food only. I gradually swapped. I also made myself the centre of attention by having two balls AND a tug toy and lots of recall games with a little training sprinkled in amongst the games. Recall games could begin with chasing the ball/toy and then calling her back to go for the second one. For me, teaching my dog that I was the centre of all things fun/ hyped/ exciting was the first step. Try tying a ball on a string and running like heck away from your dog in the back yard. Be really energetic! Mix it with food! Hope these comments helped. It seems to me that it is real art to train in play or prey drive, much harder than food but worth it in the end. Hope these comments are useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Okay, here's another thought - uneducated as it may be! How about stopping your dog from playing with other dogs for a while, until you solve your problem? It sounds like she needs to learn you are MORE fun than any other dog or anything else in the world. needs to bond more tightly with you in that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Sounds to me like a typical irish wolfhound, i would be contacting the breeder & asking there thoughts.Whilst many trainers are good some have no idea on some breeds & what makes them tick. For example if i was to do what your trainer said with my breed you would create ferals. The wolfies i now & have handled in the ring arent over the top but instead enjoy the company of there human & there soothing hands/voice. The reason people fall for this breed is because there so gentle,laid back & quiet.I maybe wrong but it sounds like what she wants you to do isnt in there breeds nature as such . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 ETA I must admit that I am a bit apprehensive about trying to trigger her prey drive K9: why? Because she is such a big girl I would not like to trigger something that in my ignorance I cannot control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 Okay, here's another thought - uneducated as it may be! How about stopping your dog from playing with other dogs for a while, until you solve your problem? It sounds like she needs to learn you are MORE fun than any other dog or anything else in the world. needs to bond more tightly with you in that respect. She really does like playing with the other dogs, but it is not possible for me to stop her from playing at all (I have quite a few dogs here and nowhere to segregate her completely). I can try what the instructor suggested though and keep her apart from them for a while before having a game with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 Sounds to me like a typical irish wolfhound, i would be contacting the breeder & asking there thoughts.Whilst many trainers are good some have no idea on some breeds & what makes them tick.For example if i was to do what your trainer said with my breed you would create ferals. The wolfies i now & have handled in the ring arent over the top but instead enjoy the company of there human & there soothing hands/voice. The reason people fall for this breed is because there so gentle,laid back & quiet.I maybe wrong but it sounds like what she wants you to do isnt in there breeds nature as such . When she is with me she is very laid back, quiet and gentle. But I do see another side of her when she is playing with other dogs. She likes to wrestle vigorously and is very vocal, sounds like Chewbacca from Star Wars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 K9: Training in drive is very safe, very reliable method of training, but like anything I guess you need to know what your doing or like anything it can go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Okay, here's another thought - uneducated as it may be! How about stopping your dog from playing with other dogs for a while, until you solve your problem? It sounds like she needs to learn you are MORE fun than any other dog or anything else in the world. needs to bond more tightly with you in that respect. She really does like playing with the other dogs, but it is not possible for me to stop her from playing at all (I have quite a few dogs here and nowhere to segregate her completely). I can try what the instructor suggested though and keep her apart from them for a while before having a game with her. Oh, sorry, I see, didn't read properly and realise you have lots of other dogs with her. This would make things harder! Do you walk her on her own lots, or, say, train her at the park on her own without your other dogs? I can imagine it would be hard to do this and still have time for your other dogs though. I only have to train one dog so I was thinking from that perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 what are you trying to achieve with this dog? Trials? Competition? or just to be a pet? The wolfies I have met have been similar. Really if she behaves quietly around you I wouldnt be wishing too hard for a hurricane on a lead! But if she is constantly in a dog group situation you will find she may get most of her sillies out with them. More one on one fun time or just going out together and treating her will get her interesting in you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted December 8, 2006 Author Share Posted December 8, 2006 what are you trying to achieve with this dog? Trials? Competition? or just to be a pet?The wolfies I have met have been similar. Really if she behaves quietly around you I wouldnt be wishing too hard for a hurricane on a lead! But if she is constantly in a dog group situation you will find she may get most of her sillies out with them. More one on one fun time or just going out together and treating her will get her interesting in you. I have no intention of doing trials or competition, I just want a well-socialised, well-behaved pet She is very well-behaved around me and other people, but can be a bit snappy with new dogs, so I guess I wanted to take her to training to help with her socialisation, and also to know that I can control her if a sticky situation arises. When I say snappy, she has had a go at a few new fosters, so I take the introductions very slowly now, and only allow her to interact with new dogs under close supervision, and usually after about a week she is fine with them. On the occasions she has 'had a go' she has never drawn blood, and if I can grab hold of her collar I can easily pull her off. I am sure if she was really serious I wouldn't have a chance of stopping her. Sometimes if I notice her growling at another dog I can tell her to stop and she will. But sometimes her reaction comes too fast and I have been unable to stop it before it escalates. Ideally I would like her to accept new dogs easily (I am prepared to be careful about introductions though), and if something did start, I would like to be able to call her off with a verbal command. Do you think I am asking too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 new interactions have to be human controlled anyway. I would never expect a dog to just accept a new member into the pack. Her behaviour could indicate that she's telling the newby 'i'm gonna be your boss so take that" and she's reaffirming her position in the pack. I dont think you are asking too much. But remember at 9 months the dog is going to start maturing and behaving like an early teen. Set clear, firm boundries for all in the household and stick to them religiously. Dont make exceptions. If she does something wrong make sure she knows it (time out etc) and keep the same rules for the fosters. Make sure everyone is fed separately and dont let any dog eat out of the others bowls. No one on furniture, pushing you etc. But you still have to watch that your fosters have compatible personalities with your doggy, you cant expect every dog to get along with every other. An overly dominant animal may not be the way to go with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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