Herding - How Do You Stop The Pup Herding Chooks

[whatevah]

Okay have found out that my 9 week old pup has herding instinct yesterday. She give the chook eye then stalks after it and drops and watches the chook and then chased it.

I would like to know what should I do to stop her interest in the chooks. Should I have the chooks locked up when she is around?

Should I tell her off if she goes to chase the chooks.

If I decide to do herding what are the steps that you can do with the puppy?

Will the chooks be put off laying if she is chasing them?

Here is a video of Tia chasing a broom.

Edited December 3, 2006 by CrashTestDummy

[Kodiak]

Hi CTD,

I have zero experience at herding... but hope to change that! I have asked (on here and at my obedience club) about what I should be doing with my 5 month old Aussie... the advice so far is to get her onto sheep soon (for the experience/socialisation aspect and I guess to trigger her instincts - btw she is a pain in the butt when I am sweeping too!). In the meantime (we are planning a session in January) I have been told working on recall, sit and stop are worthwhile (though it's likely all control will go out the window when she sees sheep).

Where abouts are you? If you give a general idea someone might be able to help you out with a place you can train your puppy.

As far as the chickens are concerned - if your puppy is annoying them I would keep them seperated if you can. Though lots of dogs learn herding on chicken or ducks to begin with.

Cute puppy!

Edited December 3, 2006 by Kodiak

[dawgwork]

This is a time to introduce what you want your pup to work and what not too. lt is advisable to lock up the chickens when you are not present and OK to rule them out as prey when you are. Because once they are on the list it is hard to break it later, just like the broom could end up being a nuisance to you and a fixation to the pup, especially if it has no real stock to use as an outlet for that herding instinct.

l got an old video off Tony McCallum yrs back, that goes through the stages of a young working pup, he introduces stock at a young age and imprints a lot of work behaviour as he goes.

lt is designed for the real working dog, but is most useful in the attitude towards any working dog and preparing them for a job. He starts at 7 wks and goes through stages to a year, not a modern bells and whistles production, but very interesting and useful approach to turning out good stock dogs. He works with dogs that are to end up working cattle, so they are the heavier end of dogs , so it was nice to see how he dealt with some rough behaviour that may be seen at times.

He of course is in a farm situation, but it reminded me of how he channelled that instinct when l saw your pup keen to "work" that broom, good luck, and l have heard chooks can be annoyed out of laying by zealous pups

[jesomil]

I would definately stop any access that the pup has to the chooks. All pups will want to chase chooks and its not fair to reprimand them all the time.

You dont want to cause bad habits either or repress instinct if you want to do herding in the future.

Chooks are not suitable for herding training as they dont flock together. Indian runner ducks are great for starting a young pup on as it encourages instinct but there is no chance of the pup getting injured. I started mine at 7wks.

[whatevah]

Okay thanx for the advice, will keep dog and chooks separate. I am an absolute newbie in this area. I know nothing, zilch, zip!!! I live in the Dandenong Ranges area.

[Kodiak]

Thanks for the information too Jesomil - I have read about chickens being used but have never really thought that one through! Makes sense that they wouldn't be a great one to use!

[sidoney]

You may want to put a barrier, like a bit of distance (e.g. second fence), and/or a visual barrier, between the chooks and the pup, as I can vouch that a herding bred dog can become obsessed with chooks even if they are locked up. I ended up rehoming my chooks. If I'd started earlier with the second fence and visual barrier I may not have had to.

[Pippi]

Okay have found out that my 9 week old pup has herding instinct yesterday. She give the chook eye then stalks after it and drops and watches the chook and then chased it.

I would like to know what should I do to stop her interest in the chooks. Should I have the chooks locked up when she is around?

Should I tell her off if she goes to chase the chooks.

If I decide to do herding what are the steps that you can do with the puppy?

Will the chooks be put off laying if she is chasing them?

Here is a video of Tia chasing a broom.

Hi CTD

Here is a pic of my Pip at 8 wks being introduced to chooks. My view with the chooks when I got Pippi was that I wanted her to be socialised to them. I wanted my chooks to be free range without being worried by a BC trying to herd them constantly. So she needed to learn that chooks were to be left alone and not herded, the same training you would do with small children or cats - no different. She was put in the chook pen with the chooks from day 1, at this stage the chooks were not worried by her at all, she was too small. When she did chase them they usually turned and pecked her. voila! the chooks did most of the training for me. I did this every day for a few minutes until she went into the chook pen, totally ignored the chooks and they her.

Now the chooks are out free ranging all day and Pip ignores them totally - they are just part of the scenery.

[whatevah]

Tia has actually chased the chooks they didn't cluck at her. If the cat chases the chooks, the chooks cluck at the cat. When I used to have my sheep, she actually head butted Moses, and he never chased sheep. Thanx anyway.

I had another idea of having the gate to the chook pen with a little door that only chooks can fit in, and then they can run into there.?

When we first had the chooks, we put up green shade cloth mesh to stop Moses chasing them from the outside of the chook pen.

[sidoney]

I had another idea of having the gate to the chook pen with a little door that only chooks can fit in, and then they can run into there.?

Border collie wouldn't take long to figure out to herd the chooks away from that, if you are planning it as a respite gate.

I never had my chooks and dogs together, since the chooks dug the gardens - I always chucked greens in to them. So I can't help you with knowledge about running them together. I have experience of keeping chooks adjacent to working dogs, in a 'burban backyard.

Edited December 5, 2006 by sidoney

[Guest border collie employee]

I know exactly how you feel,we have had two border collies obsessed with chasing the vacum cleaner. One of the bc's though had to have a toy in his mouth before he could start work

[Sparty]

You may not want to train her to avoid the chickens if you decide to do herding later you may end up having to herd ducks (not sure) i would seperate them and block visual or she could get obsessed.

[whatevah]

Someone else has suggested possibly teaching her to herd, so she learns properly, then tell her not to herd. Today I got the broom out and swept but played tuggy with her as I was sweeping to get her attention off the broom, it worked.

[WorkNBCs]

Hi CTD if you want to do herding later the last thing you want to do is let her have a free go at your chooks - all you are doing is teaching her to work for herself and not have you in the frame at all. Although she may crouch and eye them that is not necessarily instinct, especially if she is just chasing.

As other people have already suggested - teach her to work stock that flock - she isnt too young to try on sheep - although you should only do this with someone who really knows what they are doing as it is too easy to switch them off at a young age. You also want to make sure you use quiet dogged down sheep that are not going to hurt her or bolt which would just encourage her to chase. Don't be disappointed if she does not switch on to sheep immediately as some dogs only start working as late as a year or even older.

Hope this is some help and good luck with her

[jesomil]

Here is a pic of my Pip at 8 wks being introduced to chooks. My view with the chooks when I got Pippi was that I wanted her to be socialised to them. I wanted my chooks to be free range without being worried by a BC trying to herd them constantly. So she needed to learn that chooks were to be left alone and not herded, the same training you would do with small children or cats - no different. She was put in the chook pen with the chooks from day 1, at this stage the chooks were not worried by her at all, she was too small. When she did chase them they usually turned and pecked her. voila! the chooks did most of the training for me. I did this every day for a few minutes until she went into the chook pen, totally ignored the chooks and they her.

Now the chooks are out free ranging all day and Pip ignores them totally - they are just part of the scenery.

This will not work with a pup that has herding instinct. A pup with instinct will try to herd them regardless and not give up. This method would probably work with a pup with only a chase instinct. Depends on how your pup is wired.

Although she may crouch and eye them that is not necessarily instinct, especially if she is just chasing.

Totally agree.

Someone else has suggested possibly teaching her to herd, so she learns properly, then tell her not to herd

Not that easy.

If you want to do any form of herding in the future i would recommend keeping them totally separate and not letting her chase them at all. When you want to try herding, get the help of an experienced person with sheep or ducks.

You could really turn her off and cause bad habits by doing anything else.

On the otherhand, if you want to repress a chase instinct, it can be done. I used to have free range chooks with my non working bred dogs with no troubles. They were working dogs as far as breed but not hard wired working bred dogs.

You pup may well be able to live happily with them in the future but will require maturity and training.

[whatevah]

So far we have been keeping them separate. My other two gundogs leave them alone.