ruthless Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 hi, i was going to pet barn on sat and i was bringing chopper with me. he's a bit of a puller, and i knew there'd be other dogs there, so i put his prong collar on him so i could control him. as i was at the counter paying for everthing, the girl there, manager i think, told me to be really careful with prong collars. she said she used to have a gsd and had to have him pts because he pulled really hard on the prong and ended up with a collapsed oesophagus. i told her i'd got mine from a trainer and i know how to use it correctly. she said she's a trainer too and she knew what she was doing, and begged me just to be really careful if chopper continues to pull and develops a wheezing cough. it kind of freaked me out, but at the same time my gut reaction was to shrug it off as scare mongering. i know a lot of people are anti prong collars and maybe she was just trynig to scare me out of using it. has anyone else heard similar horror stories? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 If it was caused by the dog pulling then it could also have happened on a correction chain, flat collar, martingale etc. I'm curious to know what kind of trainer she is if her dog was wearing a prong and pulling so hard it did damage that required it be pts... Freak acidents occur but mostly things like this are due to the misuse of the tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted November 27, 2006 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 you see, i just never ask the right questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 The good thing about a prong was that it is limited slip, making it much safer than a regular choke chain, since it can't constrict fully. So I don't really see how the dog could have injured itself on a prong collar, unless the trainer was being abusively harsh with his corrections? It's perfectly possible to injure a dog with any kind of collar if you use it abusively enough. That problem is in the user, not the tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I don't know how you'd collapse the oesophagus before you collapsed the trachea.....sounds suss to me. A collapsed trachea may lead to wheezing sounds, but you don't breathe through your oesophagus. I think she was talking out of her ......BTW how was her breath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted November 27, 2006 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 i've met her heaps of times and she's always been really friendly and helpful, why in the name of god would she be bothered telling me porky pies? people are strange... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 i've met her heaps of times and she's always been really friendly and helpful, why in the name of god would she be bothered telling me porky pies? people are strange... Agree with what Rom said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxSpots Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I'm curious to know what kind of trainer she is if her dog was wearing a prong and pulling so hard it did damage that required it be pts... Good point !! you see, i just never ask the right questions! My problem too, ruthless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 i've met her heaps of times and she's always been really friendly and helpful, why in the name of god would she be bothered telling me porky pies? people are strange... Maybe she didn't do so on purpose. Maybe she just doesn't know and/or understand as much as she thinks. The key to a good trainer (and, for that matter, anyone in any field) is to know when you don't know................ and research to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Sorry Ruthless, didn't mean to offend. My answer was worded a little insensitively and I hope you can accept my apologies for that. I had another thought though, perhaps the damage was caused before the prong was used...the right dog could collapse a trachea on a flat collar. Perhaps the ladies vet just blamed it on her use of the prong because maybe the vet hasn't taken the time to be educated on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arby Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 (edited) I actually found that our boxer stopped wheezing and foaming at the mouth since we started using the prong collar on him. If fitted correctly and used correctly there should be no problems. Check chains and flat chains to me are more dangerous. We had our boy pull so hard on these taht it would cause him to throw up and wheeze for ages after the walk. edit: In all the times I spent in poland and all the time my grandparents have bred dogs I have never heard of this sort of thing arising from the use of prongs. Over there every single pet shop and even supermarket sells these, if they were really so dangerous they'd have been banned by now. So far its been at least 30 years of experience in my family with these thats proven to me that they arent dangerous. Scary looking yes but not dangerous Edited November 27, 2006 by arby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted November 27, 2006 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 Sorry Ruthless, didn't mean to offend. My answer was worded a little insensitively and I hope you can accept my apologies for that.I had another thought though, perhaps the damage was caused before the prong was used...the right dog could collapse a trachea on a flat collar. Perhaps the ladies vet just blamed it on her use of the prong because maybe the vet hasn't taken the time to be educated on them? you didn't offend me at all! sorry if i gave the impression that you did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 The only thing I can think of is that she had the prong right up under the dogs chin, constantly pulled and it smashed all the little voicebox bones that hold the dogs throat together. That is pretty unrepairable, could cause a collapsed eosophagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 The only thing I can think of is that she had the prong right up under the dogs chin, constantly pulled and it smashed all the little voicebox bones that hold the dogs throat together. That is pretty unrepairable, could cause a collapsed eosophagus Very interesting observation. Like arby I ahve seen dogs being walked on prong collars all my life and never heard about it, but I must say that most people in Europe put the prong mid way on the neck not right up behind the ears. IMo it doenst matter where the collar is, if the dog wont pull on it it will not damage anything ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 This is where the issue is getting a little confusing I think....the above could cause a collapsed trachea, but not oesophagus. The oesophagus is basically a tube that is surrounded by smooth muscle. It is always in a collapsed state until you actually swallow at which time peristalsis engages the smooth muscle to push the food into the stomach. Also, the trachea is infront of the oesophagus, and its the trachea that has rings of cartilage that hold it open...necessary to facilitate breathing and houses the larynx. The trachea would sustain damage way before the oesophagus. Thats why I feel that either the story is suss or the vet is suss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Love the new sig Myszka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Thanks haven. Created by FD, isnt he just the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 (edited) hi,i was going to pet barn on sat and i was bringing chopper with me. he's a bit of a puller, and i knew there'd be other dogs there, so i put his prong collar on him so i could control him. as i was at the counter paying for everthing, the girl there, manager i think, told me to be really careful with prong collars. she said she used to have a gsd and had to have him pts because he pulled really hard on the prong and ended up with a collapsed oesophagus. i told her i'd got mine from a trainer and i know how to use it correctly. she said she's a trainer too and she knew what she was doing, and begged me just to be really careful if chopper continues to pull and develops a wheezing cough. it kind of freaked me out, but at the same time my gut reaction was to shrug it off as scare mongering. i know a lot of people are anti prong collars and maybe she was just trynig to scare me out of using it. has anyone else heard similar horror stories? thanks I hate when people put down training tools etc in a way that really freak out the owner... A little bit different than your prong collar story but we were told in puppy preschool by the vet nurse who took the class never ever ever ever ever to use a Halti, she made a big show of it by only putting it on a stuffed toy instead of a real dog and said "I am only showing you this because I have to" and went on about how our dogs could be seriously injured if we ever used it. She made us feel really bad for even considering using it on our husky. However, months later when he was pulling on the lead so badly that my sister (who was 12 at the time) wasn't strong enough to walk him we used one and found if used properly it was great Now it's time to take our new pup to puppy school we won't be going to the same place Edited cos I can't type properly DUH Edited November 28, 2006 by husky87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreyaJade Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 (edited) Unfortunately us prong users will have to continue have horror stories thrown at us (if not just plain ol critisim) but like this thread... http://forums.dogzonline.com.au/index.php?showtopic=82343 danger lurks EVERYWHERE!!! I use a cool scarf to 'hide' the prong sometimes. Ppl don't even know there's a prong underneath. Problem solved! BTW I had my dogs out walking during the weekend, one on a prong, one on a choke chain. When we passed by a poodle who was barking through a fence, guess who pulled & half choked herself & guess who kept on walking with mum (after a first initial look in the poodle's direction ofcourse ) GirlDog was the one on the prong & YES she was the one who kept on walking. Poor Tess on her choke chain did exactly that ! AND she's the one who walks best on a loose leash. Now fancy that! ;) Edited November 29, 2006 by FreyaJade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tds Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 why not just train your dog rather than all this hiding , justification and lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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