French Swat Dogs

[mersonmalinois]

The more I think about the French dogs, the more I worry about them. Their balls-to-the-wall drive/athleticism is so cool to watch, but truly they are going to get injured/f*cked up because they have no respect for their bodies nor where they are going when they strike.

I wonder if they set up a scenario where the perp is on a roof of a tall building if the dogs would realize and respect where they are. I think they would fly over the top of the building and would go splat on the ground.

Control of dogs like that is SO important and their health is dependent on wise handling.

[Jeff Jones]

the french want there dogs like this, they want them to hit hard and fast. there dogs are not cross trained in any other discipline apart from attack work.

so yes they dont want a thinking dog they just want a dog to send in and take down the perp.

it was a mistake for the dog to bite the handler but thats what trainings for....amateurs train until they get it right, professionals train until they can't get it wrong...

[mersonmalinois]

the french want there dogs like this, they want them to hit hard and fast. there dogs are not cross trained in any other discipline apart from attack work.

so yes they dont want a thinking dog they just want a dog to send in and take down the perp.

it was a mistake for the dog to bite the handler but thats what trainings for....amateurs train until they get it right, professionals train until they can't get it wrong...

How long does one of the French hit hard & fast dogs last in the streets? It would seem their working career would be short lived due to their intensity and disregard for their bodies.

[Nekhbet]

but how often would a dog like this be in use? These dogs are like the special forces themselves - high intensity, specialised and ready to go at any time. It takes a lot of training to get to this level, they wouldnt bother with all the time, money and effort if the dog was to last a few months.

When an emergency arises you have one chance to get it right. Sometimes you have to sacrifice one thing to get another. A dog that baulks at a situation because it loses focus is a bigger liability and has more risk for injury. Mals are smart and hard, but at the same time they're not suicidal.

[mersonmalinois]

but how often would a dog like this be in use? These dogs are like the special forces themselves - high intensity, specialised and ready to go at any time. It takes a lot of training to get to this level, they wouldnt bother with all the time, money and effort if the dog was to last a few months.

When an emergency arises you have one chance to get it right. Sometimes you have to sacrifice one thing to get another. A dog that baulks at a situation because it loses focus is a bigger liability and has more risk for injury. Mals are smart and hard, but at the same time they're not suicidal.

You bring up a good point. If the dogs are not in high demand/use, why bother to train them? It's awesome to have an elite dog team, but if their not utilised but every blue moon, I suppose the handlers will have a great time training? I personally feel the dogs on the video are a great liability. If the hostage who sat down in the car had sat up, the dogs would have nailed that person too - they do not discriminate as they are into biting whoever is in their line of vision. They are not able to be called off and they do not have a reliable out - so they are a liability if they attack an innocent person.

The dogs in the video are suicidal in my opinion - they live for the bite at all costs and would die before losing out on that opportunity. Impressive dogs, but not trustworthy.

[Jeff Jones]

thats the kind of dog the GIGN want tho.....if they wanted a more mellow dog they wouldnt be using belgian malinois'.

if the malinois wanted to attack the guy in the car he would of....i dont believe the malinois would of attacked the first person it came to,

these guys dont operate in normal policing roles, the dogs would just be another effective tool that they could use if the situation arises. its upto them if they want to use the dogs or not......they could easily use a rifle and shoot the guy in the head...they train for 2 hours a day every day on advanced shooting techniques alone....but its good to have the dogs as a less lethal use of force if they feel the need....

[Kavik]

I was talking to sidoney about this video earlier in the year. She said the French agility dogs are also extreme speed/drive with not a lot of control. Maybe they just like them like that

[mersonmalinois]

if the malinois wanted to attack the guy in the car he would of....i dont believe the malinois would of attacked the first person it came to,

Really?? Did you notice how the decoy shut the car door once he was attacked by the dogs? I think if the hostage had been standing there and the handlers sent the dogs in, the hostage would have been toast.

Please know I think these dogs are incredible, but highly dangerous. They have primary focus without sensability or descrimination.

JJ, do you know how long the dogs serve in their capacity as a police dog?

Edited November 24, 2006 by mersonmalinois

[Jeff Jones]

i wouldnt stand there while a guy was getting mauled by 2 dogs either ...

again i dont think the hostage would have been bitten...you have to look at what is more rewarding for the dog.....attacking the aggressive guy with the gun....or going for the hostage.....

they would have performed this and many other training scenarios hundreds of times....the gun and suspicious manner the decoy was acting in would of been a trigger for the dogs to focus in on that guy...

if the dogs would have been locked in prey and not able to distinguish between a threat and a hostage the first dog would have either ..a) jumped through the car window...or b) jumped over the car and turned back around to try and find a way into the car.

[Jeff Jones]

JJ, do you know how long the dogs serve in their capacity as a police dog?

no, you wont find to much information about the dogs deployment or even if they have been used....but it works out that once a week the GIGN are deployed on a mission either in france or overseas.

the average working life span of a police dog in america is 5 years so i would say it would be about the same...

[Steve K9Pro]

MM: Really?? Did you notice how the decoy shut the car door once he was attacked by the dogs? I think if the hostage had been standing there and the handlers sent the dogs in, the hostage would have been toast.

K9: Maybe & maybe not, we will never know but, Police officers are not meant to discharge any weapon where they could risk the public safety, this would be no different.

This is a training session, with the complete environment being controlled. It is nice to know what the dog will do when your in training.

In the end deployment is a balance, risk of public on close proximity vs risk to public if you dont apprehend the suspect, terrorist etc etc...

[Poodle wrangler]

These dogs are like the special forces themselves - high intensity, specialised and ready to go at any time.

I admire the abilities of both human and canine "special forces", but after the job's done some pay a high price. I'm thinking of life outside work for both human and canine. Once retired, what happens to these dogs?

[Roguedog]

These dogs are like the special forces themselves - high intensity, specialised and ready to go at any time.

I admire the abilities of both human and canine "special forces", but after the job's done some pay a high price. I'm thinking of life outside work for both human and canine. Once retired, what happens to these dogs?

as far as im aware (please correct me JJ if im wrong) most are retired into the handlers home or used to train military/police officers in K9 handling.... its rare that the dogs are PTS at the end of their working career....

[Nekhbet]

Depends on the dog Rubidoo

some stay on to become handler trainers, some go on to be brood bitches/studs. A dog like these though I wouldnt rehome into a domestic cituation its downright dangerous. THey would be used to a structured military type kennel environment, no way would I put them near the public or kids. If they came down to the end of their working lives it would be kinder to PTS then leave a dog that is used to working so hard into an average home.