Types Of Sheep-working Dogs

[shoemonster]

Yeah it was Sat arvo

Did you see us? Pity we didn't get to meet too

[jesomil]

The weekend was great.

I got to meet Kayne's beautiful pups. The Koolie is stunning. The colours are amazing. Such happy, friendly dogs!!

And also met shoemonster. You couldnt miss the 3 staffy's amongst the sheepdogs , so i plucked up the courage to ask if they were from here and thankfully they were or i would have looked like an idiot!

It was great to meet you guys. Sorry i couldnt chat more but inbetween competing and feeding my baby, it was a busy afternoon. That Eddie if yours is such a good looking dog

There was not that many people there on the Saturday. Heaps more on the Sunday though. We had lots of fun

[kylieandpossum]

That was Saturday afternoon wasn't it Shoe?

I was there as well. The Lone Koolie hahahaha, not another Koolie in sight.

Though the farmers kept asking me if he worked and how well etc etc. He is switching off after 5 minutes or so at the moment. His hormones have kicked in and he is not used to it. But if I repeatedly took him in for 5 minute stints he just gets better and better.

1 BIG problem he has, for me anyway is getting stock off a fence. He will charge head long into a mob nop problem, but will not go between stock and a fence if they are packed in. He would rather back at that point and run across the top of tham.

Adam

sounds like the weekend was fun, i told my herding friends about it and they were very jealous and suggested if we got in the car friday night we could have got down there in time!

adam, that issue is easy to fix but it depends who you have instructing you and what methods you use. i will tell you what worked with P but it could be different for your boy.

poss naturally worked around ok but if they got stuck on the fence her first instinct was to duck inside, ie between me and the sheep. because she worked high i had a stick in my hand (a thin light piece of fibreglass, like they use for electric fences). its an extension of my arm and not to be used to hurt her with. when we first started it had a plastic bag tied to the end of it. when she wanted to duck in front i stepped in there quick and put the stick out in front of me to block her (say we're working anticlockwise then the stick is in my right hand so that my shoulders are turning in front of her, giving her the space behind me to work in).

she learnt quickly she needed to stay out of that area between me and the sheep - it was jsut a natural aversion to strong body language and a stick with a flapping piece of plastic on the end of it! we didnt want her to back we wanted her to get the stock off the fence by going between them and the fence. she is a good barker but would just stand at their heels and bark. so i pointed the stick right at her butt and made encouraging noises, like a 'chchchchchc' sound, which gees her up, so she was getting a negative motion (the heat from me and the stick behind her) and a positive sound. i had to make sure that stick stayed right there (let me clarify, i wasnt behind her, im still in the middle of the yard, its just the thought of that stick behind her, that i could step into her with, is enough), and then shes getting encouragement to go forward. she was uncertain about it but i just kept making the noises and encouraging her, like go one possum, get em possum and everytime she took a step forward she got a good girl, still with the stick there, and then she just pushed her way through and got a big 'good girl' and the stick came down and now she does it no qualms.

does that make sense?

this is jsut what worked for me, interested to hear how other people do it.

and if hes only working in short bursts take him out BEFORE he looses interest so he leaves wanting more. he will come back keener. esp take him out if he does a good bit and is really excited. hes still young tho so i wouldnt worry!

[shoemonster]

Jesomil thats ok! How did you go in your second run through with the ducks?

Oh and thanks for the comliment on Ed, he thinks he is the most beautiful dog in the world and so do I! lol

I think I might have seen Kayne, if the girl you were with was walking the Border? Was she wearing a white singlet top?

Edited November 27, 2006 by shoemonster

[Kayne]

Yup shoe,

That was us. That was my pregnant other half. Hers is the little BC girl.

K&P I am working on the encouragement at the moment. the BC (Jenna) does it no hassles but she is a slower worker and a better thinker. The Koolie (Chance) is like greased lightning but not so quick in the head.

They both love to work and would do it all day so I am happy with that anyway.

In the interim i think I will jump at any chance i have to take them Herding and do a coarse with Paul next year with Cattle.

[jesomil]

Jesomil thats ok! How did you go in your second run through with the ducks?

We went really well. It takes so much precision and concentration to manouvre the ducks through the obstacles. I was so proud of my boy, he did so well. We ended up coming 3rd!!

We also got 1st in the city slickers sheep competition, 1st in the novice high jump ( he had never jumped before but ended up jumping 6ft 11) and 2nd in the encourage sheep trial.

We entered the Novice sheep trial too and did ok and he got a score, but i know what we have to work on now. Paddock work!!

Sorry, i will stop my weekend brag now. I am so happy with my boy. He cant get out of bed today though. Big Weekend!!

Here is a pic of him with his prizes

[Kayne]

I liked your Kelpie Jes,

Very obedient lol. Made me look bad with my mad Koolie lol.

An amazing number of people asked me how well Koolies worked though.

[Mooper]

A toaster?

Did someone get too many for their wedding or something?

Well done

[Perry's Mum]

I am very impressed - I would like to see how Perry would go with some ducks - she has been trying to herd the magpies in the garden but they won't play. At the moment she is playing with the other members of her local 3 year olds play group - they are playing sheep and sheepdog - she is the sheepdog and they are the sheep and she has to try and get them together while they try and escape. Keeps them quiet for hours until one wants a go at being sheepdog and wants Perry to be a sheep - she just does not do sheep in that sense.

[shoemonster]

Oh yay Go Jesomil, you did great!!!

I was so impressed by all the dogs there, so clever

[kylieandpossum]

Jesomil thats ok! How did you go in your second run through with the ducks?

We went really well. It takes so much precision and concentration to manouvre the ducks through the obstacles. I was so proud of my boy, he did so well. We ended up coming 3rd!!

We also got 1st in the city slickers sheep competition, 1st in the novice high jump ( he had never jumped before but ended up jumping 6ft 11) and 2nd in the encourage sheep trial.

We entered the Novice sheep trial too and did ok and he got a score, but i know what we have to work on now. Paddock work!!

Sorry, i will stop my weekend brag now. I am so happy with my boy. He cant get out of bed today though. Big Weekend!!

Here is a pic of him with his prizes

oh well done! i wish i had seen it, esp the ducks. i love watching kelpies work ducks. im not sure if the ducks would survive a koolie

and now he can cook his own toast

[jesomil]

I was very surprised to receive a toaster !!

But its great. Our old one really needed replacing.

I will put up some working shots of dogs when i get organised with them.

There was also another Koolie there and it was a blue merle. It didnt work though. I have learnt alot about Koolies and how they work in this thread !! Its all very interesting. I love the photos of them.

im not sure if the ducks would survive a koolie

From this thread, it sounds like ducks may not be the best stock for Koolies to work I think a Koolie might do a bit of duck plucking!!

Edited November 27, 2006 by jesomil

[Perry's Mum]

There are Koolies around who work ducks - I have seen it on video.

[Kayne]

They are very very well disciplined Koolies.

I don't know if anyone here has seen Chance with sheep, but he moves so fast they get confused over which direction he is coming from and are not sure where they are supposed to go. He also does this shoulder slam thing that would flatten a porr little duck lol.

But I did see feather flying from a few Kelpie mouths lol.

[kylieandpossum]

They are very very well disciplined Koolies.

I don't know if anyone here has seen Chance with sheep, but he moves so fast they get confused over which direction he is coming from and are not sure where they are supposed to go. He also does this shoulder slam thing that would flatten a porr little duck lol.

But I did see feather flying from a few Kelpie mouths lol.

i think now i have done so much work with miss p she would be controllable over ducks, she may however have learnt some bad habits from our cattle dog from when we used to keep chooks and came home one day to a pile of feathers. hmmmm. he seemed to like the taste of wool too. hence, no more sheep for you!

poss tried to work a friends cat once, that was pretty funny. just stalked it, down low, avoiding swipes, but didnt run away. she can be gentle when she thinks she might get hurt. no body slamming!

[Kayne]

Lol,

Those body slams are so fun to watch. ( Apparently I should discourage them lol {And I promise I will} ) He looks like he is trying to jostle the whole flock into place all at once.

I must say though, Looking at all of Jesomil's prizes and participating in this thread as well as going last Saturday really has me thinking that if I put in some hard yards Chance and I may actually succeed in winning a few of these contests. Dispite me bagging my little mate relentlessly he is a very intelligent and biddable chap. He is not afraid of stock, nor is he overly agressive. He speaks on command and loves working.........hmmmmmm ( Very thoughtful expression on my face)

[kylieandpossum]

Lol,

Those body slams are so fun to watch. ( Apparently I should discourage them lol {And I promise I will} ) He looks like he is trying to jostle the whole flock into place all at once.

I must say though, Looking at all of Jesomil's prizes and participating in this thread as well as going last Saturday really has me thinking that if I put in some hard yards Chance and I may actually succeed in winning a few of these contests. Dispite me bagging my little mate relentlessly he is a very intelligent and biddable chap. He is not afraid of stock, nor is he overly agressive. He speaks on command and loves working.........hmmmmmm ( Very thoughtful expression on my face)

oh i know that look! once you get the bug youre a dead man. i took poss along with a view to behaviour modification and now im preparing for trialling. hilarious! some of the people i do herding with are also in a flyball team with our cattle dog and we had a flyball comp on the weekend and the herding nuts are sitting around talking about technique and when s the next trial, flyball, what flyball? very amusing.

we are going to go look at a few more before we do them tho, yard dog trials esp being kind of complicated with all those gates to latch and unlatch.

you will be surpised at how if you jsut get a couple of things under control the rest will fall into place

(about the body slamming, you might lose some points for that :D )

[hopenfox]

Here are some of Hope...She works only at home with 'her' ducks or chooks. And she pretends she has no idea what herding is when I try to help us both learn more at workshops...Very frustrating!

Has anyone else had or heard of a dog that did this? It's like she knows 'her' birds need to be moved here or taken over there, but looks at me as if I can't be serious when I ask her to move (someone else's) sheep in a pointless circle!

hmm interesting. of course i have no real idea not seeing whats shes doing but it could be sheep, they're a bit more intimidating,a nd it could be that youre asking her to do it yuor way, rather than letting her have free rein...im not sure how you introduce her to the sheep tho. but possum raelly resisted anyone trying to tell her how to work for quite a long time and we still have words about it now. if you are trying to impose yourself (which you should, cos you want her to do what you tell) she may be like, hmmm i dont think so!

but like i said, couldnt tell you for sure....

(shes veeeeery cute by the way)

I think she's pretty cute too!

I think it may be the sheep. She doesn't seem to see them as herdable ..do you think if she had been introduced to sheep before poultry she would have been okay? She started herding the chooks when I brought her home at four months old and then when I bought ducks (just for her!) she happily moved onto them. She didn't see sheep till she was nearly five...

But I'm fairly sure if I was able to have my own sheep and made a point of moving them around every day, Hope would start joining in pretty quick. Wish I could afford some land!

From this thread, it sounds like ducks may not be the best stock for Koolies to work I think a Koolie might do a bit of duck plucking!!

From what I've read here, Hope works in a typical Koolie way. She's very full on, alway moving and always trying to keep the stock moving. She's very fast and works too close, but she's also quite steady and is able to keep her ducks together and moving in the right direction. Though sometimes she does run them off their feet. But she's never come close to nipping any of them. I think even Koolies can learn some restraint!

Also even though she works like this when close to the ducks, she does have a marvelous cast and will run the fenceline of the neighbour's 5 acre paddock until right opposite me and about 20 metres behind the ducks. Then she'll start zig-zagging all the way to the ducks to make sure she's got them all before bringing them to me.

I would sooo love to be able to work her in trials. Oh, I just remembered, she also has no interest in herding my friend's ducks or chooks, so that's why I got the impression she was only interested in working her own stock.

Congratulations, jesomil on all those winnings! I would have so loved to go to have a look and maybe enter Fox in something...

Oh, and I've added a pic of Hope looking like she may be considering sheep as herdable creatures, just not sure yet. And also of her trying to herd the very uncooperative pet bantams when she was young...

Edited November 27, 2006 by hopenfox

[dasha]

Kayne,

In regards to your problem with your dog not liking to go between the fence and sheep I know what you are talking about.

I had the same issue with my Kelpie as she is a very soft worker and likes to work at a distance from the sheep. She would just quietly follow around behind and slowly just edge her way when possible to make it to the head. SHe does not like to get bustled around like some of the other 'ruffians'

I got her more confident by putting her in the force packed loosely with sheep and put her at the fence. I stood roughly in the middle but you need to stand so you can hold his/her collar to guide through. It also puts you in a position to turn a sheep for the dog if it is facing it and putting it off. Looking directly in the face of a sheep is a very confronting thing for a dog that prefers to be a bit futher from them, thats why backing is usually easy for the dog to run from the back to the front but when the dog turns around there is a sea of sheep staring at the poor dog so it takes a bit of confidence to run towards teh faces and over the top.

Back to the force.......... by putting the dog between the fence and sheep when there is solid mob of sheep, it also makes it harder for the dog to get between you and the sheep as it is easier to move around the outside rather than bustle though and besides you are able to reach the dogs collar to guide it around with one hand as well as turning a confronting sheeps face away if needed.

In this scenario when trying to get the confidence to move around the sheep so close. you may need to forgive a few indescretions such as possibly snapping at the noses of sheep that are being a bit confronting (within reason) as apart from the fact it may be out of nervousness, it also reinforces to the dog that is it capable of moving sheep as the sheep will generally turn or back off after the dog gives it a fright. You just have to make it really fun for the dog and help him by assisting and moving the sheep as well so he thinks it is him.

Good luck

[kylieandpossum]

I think it may be the sheep. She doesn't seem to see them as herdable ..do you think if she had been introduced to sheep before poultry she would have been okay? She started herding the chooks when I brought her home at four months old and then when I bought ducks (just for her!) she happily moved onto them. She didn't see sheep till she was nearly five...

hmm maybe. its interesting that she works your ducks and chooks and not other peoples! that sounds like a very nice way of working them, a really nice approach. it does sound to me like she doesnt know that sheep can be moved in the same way. i dont see any reason why she wouldnt learn it tho. maybe shes a three sheep dog, which is 'unusual' for koolies, given the need for movement, but maybe try that. 3 are much less intimidating, harder to move but maybe less movement is better for her?

But I'm fairly sure if I was able to have my own sheep and made a point of moving them around every day, Hope would start joining in pretty quick. Wish I could afford some land!

totally agree. and about the land! one day.......